Is Yayshua God?

(Copyright) by James & Patt Steinle (Swanville, Minnesota)

Or, What about Arianism & Polytheism?                             A question one might ask is, if the Son Yayshua (Jesus) was a separate Being from the Father, and if we worship Yayshua, then are we not breaking the second commandment and sinning?  In essence, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (Exodus 20:3 speaking of the LORD i.e., Yehovah the Father)   Some do worship Yayshua the Son as they believe he is also the Father, which makes this a belief in the Trinity (assuming they believe in the Holy Spirit the same way).  We can ask, ‘Who was Yayshua praying to in the garden; himself?’  An answer we have heard is that he prayed aloud so as to show the disciples how to pray; that it was just for an example for them.   Luke records Yayshua praying in Luke 22:42, “…Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.”   The book of Hebrews 5:7 says, “Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8  Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;”  To say Yayshua was praying to himself (and just as an example) would defy logic.    There is a belief out in the Christian religious world that the Arian or Polytheistic belief is un-Biblical.  The Arian belief, which this writer has on the nature of God, is in opposition to the Homoousion belief of three Beings in one, or the Trinity which came from the Gnostics. (See the explanation of this controversy below this study).   There are reasons to believe the Father and the Son are two separate Beings.   In Genesis 1:26, “And Elohim said [one individual being to another per context], Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and let them have dominion….”  Also in Genesis 3:22, “And Yehovah Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.”   The question then is who or what is the ‘us’ and ‘our’?  One Being?  Two holy spiritual beings like a Family of Beings?  A Trinity of three in one?  So, we need to answer the question, “Was Jesus or Yayshua a God?”  And if he was a separate being, then are we to only worship the one true God or Yehovah per the second Commandment?   The Hebrew term Elohim (Strong’s H430) means, Mighty One or a mighty one (in a position of authority).  Strong’s gives this explanation of Elohim in part: “This masc. Hebr. noun is plural in form but has both singular and plural uses.”   There are reference books out there that may not develop the full meaning of the word ‘one’ as found for example in John 10:30 where the Son Yayshua said, “I and my Father are one.”  The explanation from my Bible’s “Lexical Aids to the New Testament” by Spiros Zodhiates, TH.D. shows: “G1520; one; mia (fem.); hen (neut.) in the mas. heis must be distinguished from the neut. hen.  Heis means one numerically while hen means one in essence, as in John 10:30: “I and my Father are one hen” (i.e., one in essence although two different personalities).  Had it said heis it would have meant one person.”   Elohim or god also does apply to humans.  Let’s examine some Scriptural examples: Those who have authority as judges: Psalm 82:1-8 “God [Elohim] standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods [H430 elohim]. 2 How long will ye [the judges or gods] judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 they know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods [elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God [Elohim], judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.”   Ex 22:9 “For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges [H430 elohim]; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.”   Again, the example of John 10:30-38, “I and my [my emphysis] Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [Quoted from Psalm 82:6 shown above] 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of [the] God [Yehovah]? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”  How?  Again, I will give the hen wording of Strong’s G1520, as explained by Spiros Zodhiates, TH.D. “(i.e., one in essence although two different personalities).  Had it said heis it would have meant one person.”   El Shaddai The first occurrence of this title or description is found in Genesis 17:1, “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, Yehovah [the LORD] appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God [El Shaddai]; walk before me and be thou perfect.”    ‘El’ [H410] or God and ‘Shaddai’ [H7706] Almighty, means the God that is over all others who could be or are called gods.  i.e., there is no other that can be higher in authority.  That is why Yayshua said his Father was greater than him (John 14:28).   Acts 3:13, “The God [Elohim] of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God [Elohim] of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.”  Who was the God of the Old Testament?  It was Yehovah (the Father) as Exodus 3:15 says, “And Elohim [God] said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou [Moses] say unto the children of Israel, Yehovah Elohim [The LORD God] of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.”   In Isaiah 44:6, “Thus saith Yehovah [the LORD] the King of Israel, and his [Israel’s] redeemer Yehovah [the LORD] of hosts [armies]; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no Elohim [God].”  It is true that apart from Yehovah there is no God because without Him there is nothing else, including Yayshua. But because Yehovah exists the Son does as well.  For he came forth from the Father (John 8:42).   Now regarding Yayshua the Son John 8:42, “Yayshua [Jesus] said unto them, If [the] God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from [the] God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”   Yayshua the Son said as recorded in John 5:23, “That all men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father.  He that honors not the Son honors not the Father which has sent him.”   Yayshua added more information in John 17:5, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was [appears two beings involved prior to the start of the world]. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.”   In Revelation 3:14 John wrote the message that came from the Father who gave it to His Son (Rev. 1:1), “And unto the angel [messenger] of the assembly of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [G746, the ar-Kay or arche] of the creation of [the] God [Yehovah].”  It is my belief this is talking about Yayshua the Son as the very beginning of the Father’s creation; as we believe Proverbs chapter 8:22-31 describes in more detail.   Pro 8:22 “Yehovah [the LORD] possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth” [H2342; born, to be in labor (childbirth), amongst other meanings.  See Isaiah 66:7-9 for an example.  John 17:8 “For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.”]; (continuing Prov.8) “when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29  When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31  Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.”   Does the above reading sound like just wisdom which a person would think the Father had from eternity?  It reads like an individual being that was brought forth, the Son Yayshua.   Paul says it this way in 1 Corinthians 1:24, “But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Messiah the power of God [Elohim] and the wisdom of Elohim [God].”   John 14:19 “Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 “At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”  Is this not the ‘us’ in Genesis 1:26 quoted above?  “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…”.   John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:” I believe I would not be incorrect in assuming the ‘one’ here is the same neutral hen meaning of G1520 as in John 10:30 described above.   Acts 7:55, “But he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Yayshua standing on the right hand of [the] God.  56 And said behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of [the] God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord.”  This appears to show there are two entities.   It was the question of Yayshua’s deity (being the Son of God) that got Yayshua killed (Mark 14:61-64) and also Stephen (Acts 7:55) who believed that Yayshua was the Son.    Romans 12:4-5 “For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Messiah, and every one members one of another.” But we are not ‘one being’ physically, we are individuals, and will be also in our future spiritual bodies.   So hopefully as can be seen, this question is not so cut and dried as a person might think.  The question of the meaning of “Elohim” singular or plural, is normally dependent on the context.  When it says “let us” do this or that; in our understanding it means there is one spiritual family of a Father and His Son; the Father who sent His Son and the Son who accepted His role to save mankind.  They are in the process of adding to that spiritual family; in fact, converted believers are even now called ‘children and sons of God’.   Romans 8:17, “And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Messiah [Christ]; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of [the] God [Yehovah].”   Here is the beloved Apostle John, “Whosoever shall confess that Yayshua is the Son of [the] God, [the] God dwelleth in him, and he in [the] God.” (1 John 5:15)   Two different Thrones: Revelation 3:21 Yayshua is speaking, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”   Finally, (before the bottom note on Arian belief), I will mention about John 20:28 where some use this single verse to try to prove that Yayshua was also the Father, “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord [Master] and my God [the Theos – Yehovah].”  I will quote from one website, “In fact one interpretation of these words of Thomas saying, ‘My Lord and my God’ may mean that Thomas was repenting of his sins of unbelief to BOTH Jesus AND the Father.”  For more on this subject and verse, see the link   http://www.amatteroftruth.com/john-20-28-my-lord-and-my-god.   These and various other scriptures are why we believe as we do.  For any reading this explanation of our belief, we don’t expect this to change any person’s mind; but at least it hopefully helps you to understand why others can have a different understanding as to the nature of the God Family.  We do not believe it to be a sin against the 2nd Commandment to believe that Yayshua is also an Elohim or a God who is below the Rank of his Father, El Shaddai the Almighty God.   Philippians 2:9-12 Wherefore Yehovah also hath highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Yayshua every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Yayshua Messiah is Lord [Master], to the glory of Elohim the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”  [I.E., IN GIVING HONOR APPROPRIATE TO OUR SAVIOR]   (NOTE REGARDING THE ARIAN BELIEF VS HOMOOUSION BELIEF:) “The Arian controversy was a series of Christian theological disputes that arose between Arius and Athanasius of Alexandria, two Christian theologians from Alexandria, Egypt. The most important of these controversies concerned the substantial relationship between God the Father and God the Son. [or the Son of God]   The deep divisions created by the disputes were an ironic consequence of Emperor Constantine’s efforts to unite Christianity and establish a single, imperially approved version of the faith during his reign.[1][2] These disagreements divided the Roman Church into two opposing theological factions for over 55 years, from the time before the First Council of Nicaea in 325 until after the First Council of Constantinople in 381. There was no formal resolution or formal schism, though the Trinitarian faction ultimately gained the upper hand in the imperial Church; outside the Roman Empire this faction was not immediately so influential. Arianism continued to be preached inside and outside the Empire for some time (without the blessing of the Empire) but eventually it mostly died out. The modern Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, as well as most other modern Christian sects have generally followed the Trinitarian formulation, though each has its own specific theology on the matter.[3][4]”   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_controversy   Pre-Nicene usage: “Homoousion (/ˌhɒmoʊˈuːsiən/ HOM-oh-OO-see-ən; Greek: ὁμοούσιος, translit. homooúsios, lit. ‘one in being’, from ὁμός, homós, “same” and οὐσία, ousía, “being”) is a Christian theological doctrine pertaining to the Trinitarian understanding of God. The Nicene Creed describes Jesus (God the Son) as being ὁμοούσιος, “one in being” or “of single essence”, with God the Father. It is one of the cornerstones of theology in Nicene Christianity.   The term was adopted at the First Council of Nicaea to clarify the ontology of Christ. In Latin, which is lacking a present participle of the verb ‘to be’, the translation consubstantialis is used (substantia being the traditional Latin translation of the Aristotelian term ousia).   The term ὁμοούσιος had been used before its adoption by the First Council of Nicaea. The Gnostics were the first to use the word ὁμοούσιος, while before the Gnostics there is no trace at all of its existence.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] The early church theologians were probably made aware of this concept, and thus of the doctrine of emanation, taught by the Gnostics.[11]”   Examples of warnings of Gnosticism in the New Testament: Colossians 2:8, “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after rudiments of the word and not after Messiah.”   1 Timothy 6:20-21; “O Timothy, keep that which is committed to your trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called.”   ——————————————————————————————————– See James Steinle’s other articles at: Steinle, James – Church of God, Bismarck (church-of-god-bismarck.org) ——————————————————————————————————–

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Laura writes: You did a great job proving that both God the Father and Christ the Son are Gods and that the Holy Spirit is not a person but the essence and power of God.   I did, however, find a few problems with the article.   From the article: Elohim or god also does apply to humans.  Let’s examine some Scriptural examples: Those who have authority as judges: Psalm 82:1-8 “God [Elohim] standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods [H430 elohim]. 2 How long will ye [the judges or gods] judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 they know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods [elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God [Elohim], judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.”   Laura writes: Psa 82:1  A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. Psa 82:2  How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Psa 82:3  Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Psa 82:4  Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. Psa 82:5  They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. Psa 82:6  I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Psa 82:7  But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Psa 82:8  Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.    I think verse seven is telling us this is not talking about people but perhaps some sort of created being that is not fully clear to us right now. All men die like men but this is saying something else. These are gods with a small “g” already but it says they will die like men. Keep in mind that Christ became a man and died like a man and yet he was God with a big “G”. It also seems like as you read chapter 82 it is talking about wicked entities which God is judging now. Look at verse one which tells you God is judging gods. So, I don’t think it proves that these verses are talking about human men.   From the article: Ex 22:9 “For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges [H430 elohim]; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.”   Laura writes: Exodus 22:9 is more likely a translation error because many bibles translate it as God.   One bible translated it this way: Exo 22:9  “For every matter of transgression, for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for garment, or for whatever is lost which another claims to be his, let the matter of them both come before Elohim. And whomever Elohim declares wrong repays double to his neighbour. (The Scriptures 2009)   And one bible avoided the whole problem this way by leaving it totally out of the verse: Exo 22:9  “If a man entrusts his neighbor with a donkey, ox, sheep or any animal to care for, and it dies, is hurt or taken away with no one seeing, (Tree of Life Version)   Old bible translations used God: And in al maner of trespace, whether it be oxe, asse, shepe, raymente or any maner loste thyng whiche another chalengeth to be hys, the cause of bothe parties shall come before the goddes. And whom the goddes condemne: the same shall paye double vnto his neyghbour. (Matthew’s Bible 1537)   Yf one accuse another in eny maner of trespace, whether it be for oxe, or Asse, or shepe, or rayment, what so euer it be that is lost: then shall both their causes come before the Goddes: Loke whom the Goddes condempne, the same shal restore dubble vnto his neghboure. (Cloverdale Bible 1535)   to `do fraude; as wel in oxe, as in asse, and in scheep, and in clooth; and what euer thing may brynge in harm, the cause of euer eithir schal come to goddis, and if thei demen, he schal restore the double to his neiybore. (Wycliffe Bible 1382)   From the article: Again, the example of John 10:30-38, “I and my [my emphysis] Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [Quoted from Psalm 82:6 shown above] 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of [the] God [Yehovah]? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”  How?  Again, I will give the hen wording of Strong’s G1520, as explained by Spiros Zodhiates, TH.D. “(i.e., one in essence although two different personalities).  Had it said heis it would have meant one person.”   Laura writes: I am going to assume that you believe this is a quote from Psalms 82 because you believe the entire Old Testament is the law of God. Actually, the entire bible is the law of God, the only problem is that not all of the bible is stating God’s Law. Some of it is history and some is prophecy and etc. Psalms 82 is not a law of God, it is talking about a meeting that took place where God is judging some entities.   If you look closely at John 10:34, Christ is saying that them being gods is written in the law of the Jews. He is not saying it is written in the law of God.   I have just eradicated all of your examples of man being god or God. If you have other examples I would like to see them.   In the end most people will be born into the God family which would make us all like God, but we are not there yet.   From the article: Acts 3:13, “The God [Elohim] of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God [Elohim] of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.”  Who was the God of the Old Testament?  It was Yehovah (the Father) as Exodus 3:15 says, “And Elohim [God] said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou [Moses] say unto the children of Israel, Yehovah Elohim [The LORD God] of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.”   Laura writes: The God of the Old Testament is Christ.   In Acts 3:13, Peter is explaining that it was the power of Christ which healed the lame man.   Exodus 3:15-16 is also talking about Christ. I think the problem comes in with the use of “God”. God can and does many times include both God the Father and Christ. We know from other scriptures they are one in purpose, however there are two beings and the only one anyone has seen or heard is Christ. God the Father is invisible, and no one has seen him. Remember that Christ did let Moses see His backside and he has arms and legs just like the rest of us.   Exo 3:15  And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Exo 3:16  Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:    1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.    1 Corinthians 10:4 tells you flat out who was spending time from Egypt to the Promised Land with the Israelites and that was Christ.   From the article: In Revelation 3:14 John wrote the message that came from the Father who gave it to His Son (Rev. 1:1), “And unto the angel [messenger] of the assembly of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [G746, the ar-Kay or arche] of the creation of [the] God [Yehovah].”  It is my belief this is talking about Yayshua the Son as the very beginning of the Father’s creation; as we believe Proverbs chapter 8:22-31 describes in more detail.   Laura writes: The Bible is pretty clear that God the Father did not make anything. So, what this is talking about is the power of God (the Holy Spirit) impregnated Mary and she had Christ as a baby who grew into a man and walked among us as a man. Then Christ was crucified and then resurrected by God the Father. And yes, Christ is the First Fruit of the First Fruits but that is because He became a man and died and was resurrected. So, in that sense He is the first, but it is not saying He was created. Christ would not be able to create Himself anymore than He was able to resurrect Himself. God the Father has a part in all of this, but Christ is the one who is creating everything and when everything is complete, Christ will present the finished product to God the Father like a gift.      Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.    From the article: Pro 8:22 “Yehovah [the LORD] possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth” [H2342; born, to be in labor (childbirth), amongst other meanings.  See Isaiah 66:7-9 for an example.  John 17:8 “For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.”]; (continuing Prov.8) “when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29  When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31  Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.”   Does the above reading sound like just wisdom which a person would think the Father had from eternity?  It reads like an individual being that was brought forth, the Son Yayshua.   Laura writes: Proverbs 8 is talking about Wisdom.   Pro 8:22  The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Pro 8:23  I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.    Right here it is flat out telling you that the Lord possessed wisdom from the beginning and the next verse tells you wisdom was set up from everlasting. It is not talking about Christ having been created by God the Father.   From the article: Paul says it this way in 1 Corinthians 1:24, “But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Messiah the power of God [Elohim] and the wisdom of Elohim [God].”   Laura writes: 1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. (King James Version)   The below version may clean up the wording somewhat.   1Co 1:24 But for those who have been chosen to follow him, both Jews and Greeks, he is God’s mighty power, God’s true wisdom, and our Messiah. (The Passion Translation)   It is talking about Christ having the power of God and the wisdom of God because He is God.   In conclusion I believe you have proven there are two Gods with one purpose. God the Father and Christ His son. Much of the Bible is literal. If you read the scripture for what it says without adding to it the outcome is better and more realistic.   I think that most people doing a bible study are looking for mysterious or hidden things so they miss what a verse is actually saying. The Bible is written in such a way to hide the truth from those not called. As you ask for and get more of God’s Holy Spirit more verses are opened up to you.   You have a tendency to lean to Christ as having been a created being but scripture just does not back that up.   I think these 18 verses should clear all of this up if you read it as being literal.   Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. Joh 1:6  There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. Joh 1:7  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. Joh 1:8  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. Joh 1:9  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Joh 1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. Joh 1:11  He came unto his own, and his own received him not. Joh 1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Joh 1:13  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Joh 1:15  John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. Joh 1:16  And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Joh 1:17  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Avram Yehoshua (Tulsa, Oklahoma)

A Response to Both James and Patt Steinle, and Laura Lee.   The Steinle’s speak about, and believe in, Arianism, which is a heresy, not because many Christians in the early Church came against it, but because of its inherently poor “Greek” understanding of the nature of Jesus of Nazareth and its contempt for Scripture that speaks of the Son being begotten, not created. The problem with understanding the Hebrew Scriptures from a Greek perspective, as the Steinle’s do, is illustrated in reading an essay about the Native American Indians known as the Apaches from a white man’s perspective versus a man who is an Apache. The Hebrew Bible, which includes all the New Testament, *1* was written from The Hebraic Perspective; the Greek words reflecting Hebrew concepts of reality. Athens is not Jerusalem. Zeus is not Yahveh. *2* The Jewish people (or Israel) in the time of Messiah Yeshua (Jesus),*3* were unlike any other people in the world because only they as a nation were in covenant with the God of the Universe. All the other nations had many false gods and goddesses, and so their understanding of reality was askew. Only Israel was delivered or saved from Pharaoh and Egyptian slavery, and only they saw the Red Sea split open and only they walked across it on dry ground, while they saw their enemy drown. Only they beheld their God descend as Fire upon Mt. Sinai, and only they heard Him speak, as a nation. Only they were given the words of God as to how to live out their covenant life with Him, which is called Torah (or the Law of Moses). Only they were given the prophecies of their coming Savior.   All that to say that the psyche of any people group or nation is made up of their collective experiences. There is no people group like the Jews, for all the other peoples had their demonic imitations of the God of Israel and His Days and His Ways of life (e.g. the nations of the world literally offered their babies in fire sacrifice to their gods. Israel was told to offer or set apart or consecrate their firstborn to God, but not in literal sacrifice). To read the Hebrew Scriptures with a Greek-Western mindset, which most of us do, begets false teachings like Arianism and Sabellianism. These concepts seek to make sense, in a very Greek way, of the Hebrew God, but fail miserably, just as a white man trying to explain the life and ways of a native American Apache. You might get some truth, but the essence is hidden from the white man, and so his explanation is lacking, even though it may sound credible, at least to another white man.   The God of Israel created Adam and then Eve, literally from Adam. In this we see how, in a simplistic way, the Holy Spirit “proceeding forth” from the Father, *4* with the same essence or “Godness” as the Father. In The Hebraic Perspective there is a simplicity and clearness to abstract problems like the nature of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Eve literally came forth from Adam. She was like him, but different, as two fives are equal to a ten-dollar bill, but very different. Yet, they both had the exact same nature.   Then Adam “knew” Eve and they had a son, Cain. The important point here for Eve and Cain is that they obviously both had the same exact nature as Adam, which is human nature. There is no “lesser human nature” for Eve or Cain. Transposing this to the Holy Spirit, which is first written of in Genesis 1:2 (as the Spirit of God), and also the Son, who is always spoken of as begotten (not created), in Genesis 1:3 the Father says, ‘Let there be Light!,’ and we know that it wasn’t the light of the sun, moon and stars because they weren’t created until Day Four (Gen. 1:14-19). The Light of Day One was God’s spoken, living Word, whom we know as Yeshua—The Word of God and the Light of the world, which the Apostle John speaks of (John 1:1-9; 8:12; Rev. 19:13). The sun is (only) a natural, created reflection or picture of Yeshua as the Light.   It should be clear to see that the nature of deity that is the Father, is also the exact nature of both the Holy Spirit and the Son. The Three are One God Family, just as John Smith, Sue Smith and baby Tommy Smith all share the exact human nature of John Smith. “To beget” always means that the product of the union, in this case the child, has the exact nature as the begetter. The Holy Spirit must be a Person and must be feminine, and Jesus, like Cain, was begotten, not created.   The Holy Spirit is the feminine aspect of the God Family, yet Greek-Western Christianity teaches that the Holy Spirit “is a Gentleman.” What kind of nuclear family were you a part of as a child? Did you not have both a father and a mother who caused you to be begotten? All natural families have a father and a mother, and so this, or rather Adam and Eve, is a divine picture of the “US” who created them. *5* Where Adam and Eve were created, God the Father and God the Mother always existed (as well as God the Son). It’s really simple. Within God the Father, from eternity past, was the Mother and the Son; similar to how within Adam were Eve and Cain. Neither the Holy Spirit nor the Son were created, but both “came forth” from the Father, with the Son “coming forth” from the Father and the Mother. Nature is a reflection of this.   Also, where in nature is a father ever his son? So much for modalism. The son is a totally different being, yet “one” with the father (and the mother). To say that the Father became the Son is the heresy of modalism. These heretics like to use the example of water becoming ice and steam. It’s also called Sabellianism, after Sabellius (about 215 AD), its main proponent. Note also that Sabellius wasn’t Jewish, not that all Jews have The Hebraic Perspective mindset. Not at all! Today most Jews think in a Greek-Western manner, even in Israel. The difference between the two perspectives is that the Greeks loved to dismantle everything and compartmentalize them, and hence, Systematic Theology, which I call Humpty Dumpty Theology. All the parts of the Bible “are on the floor,” and they can’t put them back together again as a unit or oneness as they were before. The Hebraic Perspective is a simple and comprehensive oneness, just as a rose is. Take the flower off the stem and it dies. Take the Greek New Testament away from its Hebraic roots and you have a Christianity that is not only open for heresies such as Arianism, but for heresies that many Christians think “are Gospel,” or they are “comfortable with,” yet are diametrically opposed to Jesus and His Ways. *6*   The Holy Spirit being the Mother in the Family of God (what family does not have a mother?), is also taught in the ancient Syrian or Eastern Orthodox Church which, from the time of the Apostles, has seen that the Holy Spirit is the Mother in the God Family. Also, Proverbs 8 is not speaking about wisdom as an abstract entity, nor is it speaking about Jesus. It presents the Holy Spirit, the God Mother, as divine Wisdom. It’s universally recognized that “wisdom” in Prov. 8 is a personification of a Person. That’s why most in the West see it as Jesus, but the word wisdom in Hebrew is a feminine noun, and as such, it speaks of the Holy Spirit or the Mother in this God Family. If you read Prov. 8 this way it’ll make a lot of sense. The Holy Spirit was with the Father “in the Beginning,” before time, before Creation.   Jesus is not God the Father nor is Jesus “a lesser God.” There is only one God Family: Father, Mother and Son, just as all families reflect this divine reality. The word for “one” in the famous Hebrew verse known as the Shema (literally Hear!) doesn’t mean something like one pencil, but one vine with many grapes, or one family with many members: “Hear, Israel! Yahveh is our God! Yahveh is one!” (Deuteronomy 6:4)   The name “Yahveh” is like Their last name. Just as the Smith family is one, made up of father, mother, and son, and they are all Smiths, so too is the Yahveh Family. All Three are Yahveh: Father Yahveh; Mother Yahveh, and Son Yahveh (Jesus). They all share the same, exact nature: deity. There are no other persons or spirits (e.g. demons) that have the nature of Yahveh, and because of Yeshua’s death; His divine blood sacrifice, Christians are created to be like Jesus (cf. 2nd Cor. 5:17), for the life of the flesh is in the blood (Lev. 17:11). Yeshua is the first of many like Him. *7* Yeshua is the God-Man glorified, and becoming like Him is the promise that the Father holds out to humanity: to be in eternity with Them, as the Bride of Christ. After all, what Bride can God the Son marry except one who is identical in nature to Him? (The Bride of Christ is symbolically seen coming forth from the side of Jesus. When He was pierced by the Roman spear, both blood and water fell to the ground or dirt [John 19:34]. Adam was created from the ground or dirt and Eve came from his side.)   Scripture reveals that there is God the Father and God the Son. This speaks of a family relationship. Since Man was created in the image of God, male and female, God the Holy Spirit must be the feminine counterpart to Eve. The Holy Spirit is the second Person of the God Family. Scripture reveals that similar to how Eve came forth from Adam, so too, the Holy Spirit came forth from the Father, and is a Person in Her own right, just as Eve was distinct from Adam, yet literally came from him and was one with him, in essence, not just “in purpose.” So too the Holy Spirit with God the Father (the Son coming forth or being begotten from their union; Gen. 1:2-3). Scripture never speaks of Jesus being created. It always speaks of Him being begotten, which means He must have the same nature or essence as both His Father and His Mother.   Arianism is a Greek-Western attempt to describe the Hebrew God and His Son. It fails because it not only doesn’t see the God Family as a union or oneness, but also because it tramples over Scripture, like Jesus being begotten, to obtain its position. So, it must come up with a “lesser God” known as Jesus, and reject the Holy Spirit as a Person, as they mistake the “one” in “one God” for being like one pencil.   Modalism does something similar, seeing the Father as becoming the Son and being the power of the Holy Spirit (a non-entity). Welcome to understanding of the Hebrew Bible from the dark tinted lens’ of the Greeks.   On the other hand, as Tevye*8* would say, the problem with the Christian Trinity, aside from the heretical Catholic Trinity of God the Father, Mary the Mother and Jesus the Son, is that no one can explain it in a way that makes sense or is understandable. Go online and listen to these theologians and pastors explaining the Trinity. Even Einstein would be befuddled to try and make sense out of what they’re saying. This abstract “explanation” is what gave rise to Arianism and Sabellianism, which seems right to many Greeks and Westerners, until it hits the biblical facts. To beget always means that the one begotten has the exact same nature as the begetter.   “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His Glory, the Glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father, full of Grace and Truth.” (John 1:14) *9*   “The Word” is not some abstract thing, but the very Word of God that came forth when the Father said, “Let there be Light!” and Jesus came forth, the literal Word of God and the Light of the World (Jn. 8:12). That’s why Jesus is known as the Word of God, and that’s why you can’t separate Jesus from Mosaic Law, which are the words of God.   All humanity are sons and daughters of God, and we all came from Adam and Eve, whom God created. Jesus was not created but begotten by God the Father (and God the Mother, as the mother is always part of, and recognized in any begetting process, even if not literally spoken of as such). Hence, the KJV for Matthew’s genealogy, an example of which is:   “Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren.” (Matthew 1:2 KJV)   We have been begotten by the Father and the Mother because of the Blood of their Son. That’s what Jesus being baptized in water reveals, but that’s another teaching.   Finally, the God of the Old Testament was Yahveh: Father, Mother and Holy Spirit. We see the Father speaking to Moses and saying that He would come with them to the Promised Land, where just before this He spoke of sending only His Messenger (poorly translated as Angel, but being Jesus; Ex. 33:2f.). The Mother or the Holy Spirit is seen as the Shekina Glory Cloud that was with Israel for 40 years, mostly over the Tabernacle (cf. Ex. 40:34-38).   *1* The only thing Greek about the New Testament are its word: the concepts and reality “in back of the words,” are Hebraic. Also, see Luke the Jew? on my website. Even though Luke was a Gentile and wrote his Gospel and Acts, he wrote from The Hebraic Perspective. This is what happens when you associate with the Jewish Apostles.   *2* The name that the Steinles use, Yehovah, is a hybrid from Jehovah, a grammatically impossible Hebrew name, as most theologians agree on. The Hebrew name of the God of Israel is Yahveh (some say Yahweh, but there is no “w” in the ancient nor modern Hebrew). Just as “Wagner” in German is always pronounced “Vagner,” but in the USA it’s “Wagner,” so too with Yahweh, which came to England from Germany in the late 1800s as Yahweh. The English pronounce it with a hard “w” sound, but the Germans pronounce Yahweh as Yahveh.   *3* God and others call the region of Judah and Galilee, Israel, in Mt. 2:20-21; 8:10; 10:6; Luke 2:34; 7:9; John 3:10; Acts 4:8.   *4* For example, “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father, She shall testify of Me.” (John 15:26 from the Hebrew translation of the Greek New Testament). See also John 8:42; 16:27-28, 30; 17:8.   *5* For more on why or how Jesus is God the Son, and the Holy Spirit is God the Mother, see my articles, Yeshua—God the Son and Three Persons—One God? on my website.   *6* Illicit SEX is a good example. It’s an acronym for Sunday, Easter, and Xmas, and also includes the eating of unclean animals, any one of which would have made Jesus a sinner (see Illicit SEX and the Church and A Snapshot of Church History and Mosaic Law on my website). How can any of these things, like Sunday instead of Sabbath, have been sin for Jesus, but not for His Body? Please, spare me your justification for it, and think about this: Aren’t we supposed to follow Jesus in His lifestyle? (cf. 1st John 2:6; also 1st Cor. 4:16-17; 11:1)   *7* See 1st Cor. 15:20, 23 and also my article, Salvation—The Promise! on my website, to understand that being made like Jesus is now, is the promise of the Gift of salvation.   *8* Tevye is the main character in the Jewish classic, Fiddler on the Roof.   *9* See also John 1:18; 3:16; 18; Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5; 1st John 4:9; also 1st Cor. 4:15; Philemon 1:10; Heb. 11:17; 1st Peter 1:3; 1st John 5:1.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: A Response to Both James and Patt Steinle, and Laura Lee.   Laura writes: Find my response to Avram Yehoshua within. Avram seems to have put some footnotes of a sort within his response and as each one of these comes up within, I will address it where it comes up, if it needs a response, rather than at the end where he has put them.   As a side note, we did not agree with Avram’s response. We have heard a lot of tall tales in our time but honestly, we have not heard this one before so I would caution everyone to study this before you fall for it. That is not to say that Avram has everything wrong because he does not. There are several things we have printed in the past, that he wrote and we felt were right on with scripture but this one falls short of many of his other articles and comments.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: The Steinle’s speak about, and believe in, Arianism, which is a heresy, not because many Christians in the early Church came against it, but because of its inherently poor “Greek” understanding of the nature of Jesus of Nazareth and its contempt for Scripture that speaks of the Son being begotten, not created. The problem with understanding the Hebrew Scriptures from a Greek perspective, as the Steinle’s do, is illustrated in reading an essay about the Native American Indians known as the Apaches from a white man’s perspective versus a man who is an Apache. The Hebrew Bible, which includes all the New Testament, *1* was written from The Hebraic Perspective; the Greek words reflecting Hebrew concepts of reality. Athens is not Jerusalem. Zeus is not Yahveh. *2* The Jewish people (or Israel) in the time of Messiah Yeshua (Jesus), *3* were unlike any other people in the world because only they as a nation were in covenant with the God of the Universe. All the other nations had many false gods and goddesses, and so their understanding of reality was askew. Only Israel was delivered or saved from Pharaoh and Egyptian slavery, and only they saw the Red Sea split open and only they walked across it on dry ground, while they saw their enemy drown. Only they beheld their God descend as Fire upon Mt. Sinai, and only they heard Him speak, as a nation. Only they were given the words of God as to how to live out their covenant life with Him, which is called Torah (or the Law of Moses). Only they were given the prophecies of their coming Savior.   *1* The only thing Greek about the New Testament are its word: the concepts and reality “in back of the words,” are Hebraic. Also, see Luke the Jew? on my website. Even though Luke was a Gentile and wrote his Gospel and Acts, he wrote from The Hebraic Perspective. This is what happens when you associate with the Jewish Apostles.   *2* The name that the Steinles use, Yehovah, is a hybrid from Jehovah, a grammatically impossible Hebrew name, as most theologians agree on. The Hebrew name of the God of Israel is Yahveh (some say Yahweh, but there is no “w” in the ancient nor modern Hebrew). Just as “Wagner” in German is always pronounced “Vagner,” but in the USA it’s “Wagner,” so too with Yahweh, which came to England from Germany in the late 1800s as Yahweh. The English pronounce it with a hard “w” sound, but the Germans pronounce Yahweh as Yahveh.   *3* God and others call the region of Judah and Galilee, Israel, in Mt. 2:20-21; 8:10; 10:6; Luke 2:34; 7:9; John 3:10; Acts 4:8.   Laura writes: Arianism: an influential heresy denying the divinity of Christ, originating with the Alexandrian priest Arius ( c. 250– c. 336). Arianism maintained that the Son of God was created by the Father and was therefore neither coeternal with the Father, nor consubstantial. (From the Online Dictionary)   Arianism is defined as an early branch of Christianity that held that Jesus Christ was not one with God the Father, but instead just created by God and a holy man. (From Study.com)   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: All that to say that the psyche of any people group or nation is made up of their collective experiences. There is no people group like the Jews, for all the other peoples had their demonic imitations of the God of Israel and His Days and His Ways of life (e.g. the nations of the world literally offered their babies in fire sacrifice to their gods. Israel was told to offer or set apart or consecrate their firstborn to God, but not in literal sacrifice). To read the Hebrew Scriptures with a Greek-Western mindset, which most of us do, begets false teachings like Arianism and Sabellianism. These concepts seek to make sense, in a very Greek way, of the Hebrew God, but fail miserably, just as a white man trying to explain the life and ways of a native American Apache. You might get some truth, but the essence is hidden from the white man, and so his explanation is lacking, even though it may sound credible, at least to another white man.   Laura writes: Sabellianism: In Christian theology, God is believed to exist as three ”persons” known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Sabellianism is the belief that instead of being three persons, these are actually three ”modes” or ”aspects” of the same god. (From Study.com)   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: The God of Israel created Adam and then Eve, literally from Adam. In this we see how, in a simplistic way, the Holy Spirit “proceeding forth” from the Father, *4* with the same essence or “Godness” as the Father. In The Hebraic Perspective there is a simplicity and clearness to abstract problems like the nature of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Eve literally came forth from Adam. She was like him, but different, as two fives are equal to a ten-dollar bill, but very different. Yet, they both had the exact same nature.   *4* For example, “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father, She shall testify of Me.” (John 15:26 from the Hebrew translation of the Greek New Testament). See also John 8:42; 16:27-28, 30; 17:8.   Laura writes: Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:    In other words when Christ returns to the Father he will send the “Comforter” which is the “Holy Spirit”. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father because it is the essence of God and it the “Comforter”, “Holy Spirit” will lead you into all truth and testify of Christ.   Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.   In other words, God the Father sent Christ the son, to the Earth. The words of this verse are pretty clear if you read it in context and without believing there is some strange mystery going on here.    Joh 16:27  For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.    No mystery here either, the Father sent Christ to earth on a mission to save mankind and then when the mission was complete Christ returned to heaven to be with the Father.   Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.    The disciples based on certain information believed that Christ was sent from heaven to earth. These verses are very easy to understand if you don’t add your words or ideas to them.      Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.    Just as the Father sent Christ to earth (the world), Christ also sent people (apostles, disciples) into the world of gentiles and lost tribes of Israel to preach the gospel just like Christ came to earth to preach the gospel.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Then Adam “knew” Eve and they had a son, Cain. The important point here for Eve and Cain is that they obviously both had the same exact nature as Adam, which is human nature. There is no “lesser human nature” for Eve or Cain. Transposing this to the Holy Spirit, which is first written of in Genesis 1:2 (as the Spirit of God), and also the Son, who is always spoken of as begotten (not created), in Genesis 1:3 the Father says, ‘Let there be Light!,’ and we know that it wasn’t the light of the sun, moon and stars because they weren’t created until Day Four (Gen. 1:14-19). The Light of Day One was God’s spoken, living Word, whom we know as Yeshua—The Word of God and the Light of the world, which the Apostle John speaks of (John 1:1-9; 8:12; Rev. 19:13). The sun is (only) a natural, created reflection or picture of Yeshua as the Light.   It should be clear to see that the nature of deity that is the Father, is also the exact nature of both the Holy Spirit and the Son. The Three are One God Family, just as John Smith, Sue Smith and baby Tommy Smith all share the exact human nature of John Smith. “To beget” always means that the product of the union, in this case the child, has the exact nature as the begetter. The Holy Spirit must be a Person and must be feminine, and Jesus, like Cain, was begotten, not created.   Laura writes: The Church of God for the most part does not believe in a trinity doctrine, and we do not teach a trinity doctrine because it is not in scripture. Just like people have human nature God the Father and Christ His Son have spiritual nature called the “Holy Spirit”. In other words, just like human nature is not a separate person, the Holy Spirit is not a separate person. The Holy Spirit is the nature of God, just like human nature is the nature of humans.   The reason scripture says that Christ was begotten is because he was begotten through Mary His human mother. Since Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit your doctrine proposes that Christ’s birth was an abomination, because it is an abomination for two women to lie together and it would be totally impossible for two women to have a baby together. So therefore, the Holy Spirit if it were a woman as you propose here, could not have impregnated Mary.   God the Father through His essence the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary. It was a miracle and not an abomination as you are proposing here.   As far as people not understanding the oneness of God and Christ, that is not true. If one understands that in a marriage between a man and a woman, they are still and always will be two separate people, but they are one in purpose. God the Father and Christ His Son are one in purpose but two separate beings.   When you teach this doctrine, it is just a new version of the Trinity Doctrine. In the most popular version of the Trinity Doctrine, it is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three separate entities. In your version of the Trinity Doctrine, it is Father, Son and Holy Mother, all separate entities.   Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Joh 1:5  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.   I will continue to believe what scripture says and it says Christ has been with the Father from the beginning. They became Father and Son when the Holy Spirit essence of God impregnated Mary. Before that happened they both existed forever together therefore Christ was not created. (Read John 1)   If you look at how God is creating a family from humans, apparently the seed of God is the Holy Spirit. God through the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary and with the Holy Spirit he is replacing the nature in man. In other words, God gives a piece of the Holy Spirit to those He is calling. If you let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth then the piece of the Holy Spirit given to any one person grows over time. If you do not let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth then over time you will not gain anymore of the Holy Spirit, but you will slowly loose the part of the Holy Spirit that you started with. If you are being called, then you have a piece of God’s Holy Spirit in you but having God’s Holy Spirit in you does not make you into two people.   Instead of looking for Hebraic roots perhaps people should read their bible without adding their own words and ideas into it.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: The Holy Spirit is the feminine aspect of the God Family, yet Greek-Western Christianity teaches that the Holy Spirit “is a Gentleman.” What kind of nuclear family were you a part of as a child? Did you not have both a father and a mother who caused you to be begotten? All natural families have a father and a mother, and so this, or rather Adam and Eve, is a divine picture of the “US” who created them. *5* Where Adam and Eve were created, God the Father and God the Mother always existed (as well as God the Son).   *5* For more on why or how Jesus is God the Son, and the Holy Spirit is God the Mother, see my articles, Yeshua—God the Son and Three Persons—One God? on my website.   Laura writes: This whole thing is just another version of the Trinity Doctrine that you claim no one can explain but yet your version of it is even worse than the original version of the Trinity Doctrine which is no place in scripture. The Holy Spirit is the essence of God and not a separate person.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: It’s really simple. Within God the Father, from eternity past, was the Mother and the Son; similar to how within Adam were Eve and Cain. Neither the Holy Spirit nor the Son were created, but both “came forth” from the Father, with the Son “coming forth” from the Father and the Mother. Nature is a reflection of this.   Also, where in nature is a father ever his son? So much for modalism. The son is a totally different being, yet “one” with the father (and the mother). To say that the Father became the Son is the heresy of modalism. These heretics like to use the example of water becoming ice and steam. It’s also called Sabellianism, after Sabellius (about 215 AD), its main proponent. Note also that Sabellius wasn’t Jewish, not that all Jews have The Hebraic Perspective mindset. Not at all! Today most Jews think in a Greek-Western manner, even in Israel. The difference between the two perspectives is that the Greeks loved to dismantle everything and compartmentalize them, and hence, Systematic Theology, which I call Humpty Dumpty Theology. All the parts of the Bible “are on the floor,” and they can’t put them back together again as a unit or oneness as they were before. The Hebraic Perspective is a simple and comprehensive oneness, just as a rose is. Take the flower off the stem and it dies. Take the Greek New Testament away from its Hebraic roots and you have a Christianity that is not only open for heresies such as Arianism, but for heresies that many Christians think “are Gospel,” or they are “comfortable with,” yet are diametrically opposed to Jesus and His Ways. *6*   *6* Illicit SEX is a good example. It’s an acronym for Sunday, Easter, and Xmas, and also includes the eating of unclean animals, any one of which would have made Jesus a sinner (see Illicit SEX and the Church and A Snapshot of Church History and Mosaic Law on my website). How can any of these things, like Sunday instead of Sabbath, have been sin for Jesus, but not for His Body? Please, spare me your justification for it, and think about this: Aren’t we supposed to follow Jesus in His lifestyle? (cf. 1st John 2:6; also 1st Cor. 4:16-17; 11:1)   Laura writes: Modalism: the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting persons in the divine nature. (From the Online Dictionary)   Sabellianism: Sabellius evidently taught that the Godhead is a monad, expressing itself in three operations: as Father, in creation; as Son, in redemption; and as Holy Spirit, in sanctification. Pope Calixtus was at first inclined to be sympathetic to Sabellius’ teaching but later condemned it and excommunicated Sabellius. (From Britanica)   What you are teaching here is the Trinity Doctrine just in a different form. The Trinity Doctrine is a false doctrine and is not found in the Bible. If you can find it in the Bible, I would like to see it.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: The Holy Spirit being the Mother in the Family of God (what family does not have a mother?), is also taught in the ancient Syrian or Eastern Orthodox Church which, from the time of the Apostles, has seen that the Holy Spirit is the Mother in the God Family. Also, Proverbs 8 is not speaking about wisdom as an abstract entity, nor is it speaking about Jesus. It presents the Holy Spirit, the God Mother, as divine Wisdom. It’s universally recognized that “wisdom” in Prov. 8 is a personification of a Person. That’s why most in the West see it as Jesus, but the word wisdom in Hebrew is a feminine noun, and as such, it speaks of the Holy Spirit or the Mother in this God Family. If you read Prov. 8 this way it’ll make a lot of sense. The Holy Spirit was with the Father “in the Beginning,” before time, before Creation.   Laura writes: In Proverbs 8, wisdom is presented as a woman but is not a person. When we read the entire chapter in context it is telling us that wisdom existed from the beginning. Why would that be? Look around you and take note of how much wisdom it takes to create all that Christ created. The chapter is also encouraging all people to get wisdom. Why would that be? Solomon had wisdom and as long as he used it he was with God, but when he went after all those strange women his wisdom was failing and he was unwisely going after other gods. You cannot get anything more from this chapter except it is talking about wisdom, just like the love chapter is talking about love. If people would stop putting their own words and ideas into what scripture really says we would not have all these false doctrines.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Jesus is not God the Father nor is Jesus “a lesser God.” There is only one God Family: Father, Mother and Son, just as all families reflect this divine reality. The word for “one” in the famous Hebrew verse known as the Shema (literally Hear!) doesn’t mean something like one pencil, but one vine with many grapes, or one family with many members: “Hear, Israel! Yahveh is our God! Yahveh is one!” (Deuteronomy 6:4)   Laura writes: Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:    Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.    We need to hear God with intelligence. God the Father and Christ are both Gods.   Joh 14:28  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.    Scripture seems to indicate that the Father is greater than Christ because Christ says He is.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: The name “Yahveh” is like Their last name. Just as the Smith family is one, made up of father, mother, and son, and they are all Smiths, so too is the Yahveh Family. All Three are Yahveh: Father Yahveh; Mother Yahveh, and Son Yahveh (Jesus). They all share the same, exact nature: deity. There are no other persons or spirits (e.g. demons) that have the nature of Yahveh, and because of Yeshua’s death; His divine blood sacrifice, Christians are created to be like Jesus (cf. 2nd Cor. 5:17), for the life of the flesh is in the blood (Lev. 17:11). Yeshua is the first of many like Him. *7* Yeshua is the God-Man glorified, and becoming like Him is the promise that the Father holds out to humanity: to be in eternity with Them, as the Bride of Christ. After all, what Bride can God the Son marry except one who is identical in nature to Him? (The Bride of Christ is symbolically seen coming forth from the side of Jesus. When He was pierced by the Roman spear, both blood and water fell to the ground or dirt [John 19:34]. Adam was created from the ground or dirt and Eve came from his side.)   Scripture reveals that there is God the Father and God the Son. This speaks of a family relationship. Since Man was created in the image of God, male and female, God the Holy Spirit must be the feminine counterpart to Eve. The Holy Spirit is the second Person of the God Family. Scripture reveals that similar to how Eve came forth from Adam, so too, the Holy Spirit came forth from the Father, and is a Person in Her own right, just as Eve was distinct from Adam, yet literally came from him and was one with him, in essence, not just “in purpose.” So too the Holy Spirit with God the Father (the Son coming forth or being begotten from their union; Gen. 1:2-3). Scripture never speaks of Jesus being created. It always speaks of Him being begotten, which means He must have the same nature or essence as both His Father and His Mother.   *7* See 1st Cor. 15:20, 23 and also my article, Salvation—The Promise! on my website, to understand that being made like Jesus is now, is the promise of the Gift of salvation.   Laura writes: There is nothing in scripture about the Holy Spirit being God the Father’s wife or being Christ’s Mother. I sincerely hope that no one falls for this nonsense.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Arianism is a Greek-Western attempt to describe the Hebrew God and His Son. It fails because it not only doesn’t see the God Family as a union or oneness, but also because it tramples over Scripture, like Jesus being begotten, to obtain its position. So, it must come up with a “lesser God” known as Jesus, and reject the Holy Spirit as a Person, as they mistake the “one” in “one God” for being like one pencil.   Laura writes: As I said before we in the Church of God for the most part do not believe in the Trinity Doctrine, nor do we teach it. On the other hand the trinity doctrine is exactly what you are teaching here and it can’t be found in scripture.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Modalism does something similar, seeing the Father as becoming the Son and being the power of the Holy Spirit (a non-entity). Welcome to understanding of the Hebrew Bible from the dark tinted lens’ of the Greeks.   On the other hand, as Tevye*8* would say, the problem with the Christian Trinity, aside from the heretical Catholic Trinity of God the Father, Mary the Mother and Jesus the Son, is that no one can explain it in a way that makes sense or is understandable. Go online and listen to these theologians and pastors explaining the Trinity. Even Einstein would be befuddled to try and make sense out of what they’re saying. This abstract “explanation” is what gave rise to Arianism and Sabellianism, which seems right to many Greeks and Westerners, until it hits the biblical facts. To beget always means that the one begotten has the exact same nature as the begetter.   *8* Tevye is the main character in the Jewish classic, Fiddler on the Roof.   Laura writes: Do you honestly believe that your version of the Trinity Doctrine is any better than other peoples Trinity Doctrine and that you are able to explain your version so much better, because I don’t.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His Glory, the Glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father, full of Grace and Truth.” (John 1:14) *9*   “The Word” is not some abstract thing, but the very Word of God that came forth when the Father said, “Let there be Light!” and Jesus came forth, the literal Word of God and the Light of the World (Jn. 8:12). That’s why Jesus is known as the Word of God, and that’s why you can’t separate Jesus from Mosaic Law, which are the words of God.   *9* See also John 1:18; 3:16; 18; Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5; 1st John 4:9; also 1st Cor. 4:15; Philemon 1:10; Heb. 11:17; 1st Peter 1:3; 1st John 5:1.   Laura writes: So, you believe that Christ was begotten in Genesis 1:2-3, because I don’t.    Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: All humanity are sons and daughters of God, and we all came from Adam and Eve, whom God created. Jesus was not created but begotten by God the Father (and God the Mother, as the mother is always part of, and recognized in any begetting process, even if not literally spoken of as such). Hence, the KJV for Matthew’s genealogy, an example of which is:   “Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren.” (Matthew 1:2 KJV)   We have been begotten by the Father and the Mother because of the Blood of their Son. That’s what Jesus being baptized in water reveals, but that’s another teaching.   Finally, the God of the Old Testament was Yahveh: Father, Mother and Holy Spirit. We see the Father speaking to Moses and saying that He would come with them to the Promised Land, where just before this He spoke of sending only His Messenger (poorly translated as Angel, but being Jesus; Ex. 33:2f.). The Mother or the Holy Spirit is seen as the Shekina Glory Cloud that was with Israel for 40 years, mostly over the Tabernacle (cf. Ex. 40:34-38).   Laura writes: As I understand it, the Shekina Glory Cloud was the pillar of a cloud and the fire at night that led them. Avram is clearly saying that Christ’s Mother the Holy Spirit was that cloud and pillar and fire that led them. But scripture clearly says that Christ went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud and by night in a pilar of fire. It says nothing about His Mother the Holy Spirit because Christ’s Mother is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the essence (nature) of both God the Father and Christ the Son.   Exo 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:   In conclusion this form of trinity doctrine you are teaching here is a false doctrine and hopefully in the future you will study your bible for what it says and not put your own words or ideas into it.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Darwin Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

This is concerning Avram Yehoshua’s take on who is Yayshua, God the Father and the Holy Spirit-Comforter.   Some main points-teachings he has on that subject include;   The Holy Spirit- Comforter is a she-mother. He uses mainly Proverbs to prove this.   Proverbs: 8:1 ¶ Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? Pr 8:2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths. Pr 8:3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.   That then is a trinity doctrine of the God family. Just a different form of that of mainstream Christianity.   A closer look at all of the book of Proverbs, one can understand, with a bit of wisdom, that much of proverbs is written in poetic language. With that in mind there are many references to wisdom throughout the thirty-one chapters.   A good introspective for what is needed to be a mature person can be found starting with Proverbs chapter one. It tells one to get understanding, wisdom, knowledge, discretion, justice, perception, instruction, all spiritual tools for a moral way to conduct one’s life. Wisdom cannot be some person any more than knowledge and others mentioned above can be a person.   As for the Holy Spirit Avram writes of Joh 15:26, he trades the pronoun he for she. This is how new doctrines arise. The only way to make your doctrine fit is to change words and sentences to fit one’s narrative. Seems like many do this without “batting an eye”!   Jesus says, “I am the light”. Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. Joh 11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. Joh 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. Joh 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.   Yes, Jesus is the light and truth, but that light and truth emanates from Jesus’s spirit essence. There isn’t any “her” in any of that.   Jesus says, “I am the truth”. 1Jo 5:6 ¶ This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.   Furthermore, John 14:16,26; John 15:26; John 16:7; are all masculine pronouns (he). Only one needing to get their doctrines to fit their narrative will need to change the written word to fit their false teachings.   Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.   Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.   Again, all that above is masculine (he-him).   The Comforter is He not she or even a person.   Joh 15:26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:   Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;   Joh 14:18 ¶ “I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you”. Jesus is the comforter. Did you catch that?   Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.   The Comforter is the “spirit of truth”, Joh. 15:26. Spirit is truth and truth is Jesus; 1Joh. 5:6; Joh 14:6. Truth dwelt with His disciples, “for he dwelleth with you…”, Joh 14:17.   Jesus is the Comforter, not some she god.   The scriptures are clear, Jesus is the Light, the Truth, the Comforter. Wisdom (she) in proverbs is written in poetic language and is not a person any more than understanding is a person. Get wisdom. Get understanding, all of that comes from God the Father and God the Son, Jesus. They each have a spirit essence that emanates from them, for they are one. At some point in the future, They are going to do this: Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:   That Spirit is Holy, and one can’t pour out a person onto others. If you have God’s Holy Spirit in your mind, good.   Jesus and God, their spirit bodies are not in you or in your mind. They are in Heaven. Their Spirit essence is with and in you and they are both masculine (He), not any hint of any she in the equation.   Here we see that understanding, “puts forth her voice”; Pr 8:1 ¶ Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?  Understanding here is portrayed as her (she).   Pr 7:4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:   Are we to make out, that since understanding (attributed to as- “her”) is wisdoms kinswoman, that understanding then is a person too?   With all scriptures mentioned, what can one make of those? God and Jesus have a Spirit essence that flows out from Their minds and can penetrate our minds for various purposes, and we can respond to that by choice or not. That Spirit is light, truth and comforter all in one, (trinity if you must). Wisdom is a part of that Spirit as is truth. Wisdom comes from God’s Spirit essence. Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 1Ki 3:5 ¶ In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.1Ki 3:6 And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day. 1Ki 3:7 And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in. 1Ki 3:8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude. 1Ki 3:9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people? 1Ki 3:10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing. 1Ki 3:11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment; 1Ki 3:12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee. 1Ki 3:13 And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days. To get true understanding and wisdom, is to and comes from The Spirit of God the Father and Jesus our Savior as in Solomon’s case. Please, God or Jesus is not a “she”. There isn’t any she, therefore there are no three persons in the God Head. A comprehensive study of the Spirit throughout, especially The New Testament, one can come to no other conclusion then, that Spirit is an essence emanating from God and Jesus Christ. You too, can ask God for wisdom and understanding and God perhaps may give it to you, if you’re really serious.   Wisdom cries out! Understanding is her kinswoman. Proverbs is written in poetic language making it’s point understandable to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by James Steinle (Swanville, Minnesota)

Laura, I appreciate your input. This subject is a very difficult an involved one to try to understand. I and some others have gone over this subject for a long time and we are not all on the same conclusions even at this time. There is still one set of scriptures I have to say seems to throw a roadblock into my understanding, which I will mention at the last in responding to your analysis. All I can do is try to give you (and likely many others) why I think what I do (always subject to change if new evidence or understanding comes along).   You mention Ex.22:9 where the KJV shows “judges” (H430 Elohim or elohim) which I used as a proof of men being “gods”; while some other versions show “God” which you felt is more likely a translation error. For me,I see Deut.25:1-2 as a proof that it is Israelite men (judges/gods) that were selected to help Moses judge the problems that arose between Israelites. Judges try to do the same as the real God in determining who is innocent or guilty, and administer what ever punishment is required. Really the same responsibility parents have in raising their children per Scriptural requirements. Our Elohim gives we humans who have been called, training in guiding and rendering right judgments; which is one area that we will be doing when our Savior returns to earth for 1000 years.   Laura, in giving me another example of where you believe I did not properly understand something, you mention, “If you look closely at John 10:34, Christ is saying that them being gods is written in the law of the Jews. He is not saying it is written in the law of God.” You are right in one point, I did not address that of Messiah saying the law “of the Jews.” However if Yayshua meant the Jew’s extra-biblical writings do say that, (which I was not able to find any reference to) so also does our Elohim say so in Ps. 82:6. In John 10:34 “law” of the Jews is G3551, which supposedly means “through the idea of prescriptive usage, gen. (regulation), spec. (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or fig. (a principle):-law”. In John 10:35 Yayshua said, “if he said unto you..” The question must be asked “he” who? To me, “he” is the one who gave Moses the instructions; the God of the OT. There are a couple other examples of humans being called “god”, Ex. 7:1 (see also 4:16).   One other point Laura you make from that section, “In the end most people will be born into the God family which would make us all like God, but we are not there yet.” However as you know, 1 John 3:2 says, “ Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”   Laura you wrote in regard to me saying the God of the OT was Yehovah the Father, that is where it can be really difficult to try to pin down what is what. Yes I agree Yayshua was “the Rock” and it was he who showed his backside to Moses. Also the pillar of fire at night and the cloud that lead the way and the Power of God.   The tricky part: Acts 3:13 says the Elohim [God] OF Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, our fathers, glorified His Son Jesus. See also Acts 5:30 for a second witness. So if the God OF the OT was Jesus or Yayshua, then logically Jesus was the God who sent Himself down to earth! So how could Jesus who is the Son of God (1 John 4:15) be the God of the OT who “glorified His Son”? Did he glorify himself?   I listened to a study some time ago by Tom Bradford of Torahclass.com wherein he gave an explanation that Yayshua was THE AGENT OF the Almighty God, El Shaddai or the Father. Maybe similar to a State Highway Patrol Officer who might say, “Stop in the name of the Law!”, if I might put it into my own words. The Law (of any particular State) is the Authority (which has a real name) which power or authority is given to the agent or patrol officer.   Laura, this is getting long but here one more quote from you in regard to Rev. 3:14: “The Bible is pretty clear that God the Father did not make anything. So, what this is talking about is the power of God (the Holy Spirit) impregnated Mary and she had Christ as a baby who grew into a man and walked among us as a man.”   Question Laura; in my understanding the Son was not just the Son when he was sent to the earth to be born as a human being. Proverbs 30:4 “Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?” (or in original Hebrew, “surely you know”). In 1 John 4:14 it says the Father sent His Son. Yayshua was the Son from before anything was created. To me that includes any angels or spiritual beings were created by the Son. John 17:8 the Son said, “have known surely that I came out from thee..”. How? When? For me, Prov. 8:22 is in the running, “Yehovah [the LORD] possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth” [H2342; born, to be in labor (childbirth), amongst other meanings. So what was brought forth? Just wisdom or the One who was the Agent of the Father’s Wisdom, the Son?   That is the tough question I struggle with. Maybe I have to stop thinking so logically. Psalm 83:18 says, “That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.” And yet Zechariah 14:9 says when Yayshua [meaning, he is salvation] the Son returns to rule the earth, “And the Lord [JEHOVAH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord [JEHOVAH], and his name one.” Happy studying everyone!

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

James Iron Sharpening Iron: Laura, I appreciate your input. This subject is a very difficult an involved one to try to understand. I and some others have gone over this subject for a long time and we are not all on the same conclusions even at this time. There is still one set of scriptures I have to say seems to throw a roadblock into my understanding, which I will mention at the last in responding to your analysis. All I can do is try to give you (and likely many others) why I think what I do (always subject to change if new evidence or understanding comes along).   You mention Ex.22:9 where the KJV shows “judges” (H430 Elohim or elohim) which I used as a proof of men being “gods”; while some other versions show “God” which you felt is more likely a translation error. For me, I see Deut.25:1-2 as a proof that it is Israelite men (judges/gods) that were selected to help Moses judge the problems that arose between Israelites. Judges try to do the same as the real God in determining who is innocent or guilty and administer whatever punishment is required. Really the same responsibility parents have in raising their children per Scriptural requirements. Our Elohim gives we humans who have been called, training in guiding and rendering right judgments, which is one area that we will be doing when our Savior returns to earth for 1000 years.   Laura writes: Thank you for your appreciation. I will try to go a little slower and try to explain what I see scripture as saying and perhaps this will help you with at least some understanding on this subject.   Exo 22:9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.    Deu 25:1  If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. Deu 25:2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.    None of the above scriptures support men or women in the flesh being God’s at this time. It is also not supported in scripture.   Yes, we are many times throughout scripture called sons of God and children of God, but that does not make us God’s while we are yet in the flesh. We are also not “Born Again” at this time. In order for us to be “Born Again” we have to be perfect (sinless) and then be changed into spirit. That has not happened yet. The point here is that until you are changed into spirit you cannot be a God.   1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.    1 Co 15:50 shows that as long as you are in the flesh you cannot even inherit the kingdom of God. Look at the words “corruption” and “incorruption” in Strong’s. As long as you are decaying flesh and blood you cannot live forever and the goal of being born again is to be changed into a spirit and live forever. That change from flesh and blood does not happen until the “First Fruits Resurrection”. So no, there are none of God’s elect that are considered to be God’s.   Look at all the judges on earth today, they are all flesh and blood men and women. None of them are God’s and many of them do not make sound judgements according to God’s Law. Yes, at a later time when we are spirit beings many of those who are changed to spirit beings will judge others, but that is only a temporary job, because once all the flesh and blood people that will be changed to spirit are gone there will be no one left to judge and we will all move on to other jobs.   James Iron Sharpening Iron: Laura, in giving me another example of where you believe I did not properly understand something, you mention, “If you look closely at John 10:34, Christ is saying that them being gods is written in the law of the Jews. He is not saying it is written in the law of God.” You are right in one point; I did not address that of Messiah saying the law “of the Jews.” However if Yayshua meant the Jew’s extra-biblical writings do say that, (which I was not able to find any reference to) so also does our Elohim say so in Ps. 82:6. In John 10:34 “law” of the Jews is G3551, which supposedly means “through the idea of prescriptive usage, gen. (regulation), spec. (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or fig. (a principle):-law”. In John 10:35 Yayshua said, “if he said unto you..” The question must be asked “he” who? To me, “he” is the one who gave Moses the instructions; the God of the OT. There are a couple other examples of humans being called “god”, Ex. 7:1 (see also 4:16).   Laura writes: Joh 10:34  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Joh 10:35  If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Joh 10:36  Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (KJV)   Joh 10:34  Jesus answered, “Isn’t it written in your Scriptures that God said, ‘You are gods?’ The Scriptures cannot be denied or found to be in error. Joh 10:35  So if those who have the message of the Scriptures are said to be ‘gods,’ then why would you accuse me of blasphemy? Joh 10:36  For I have been uniquely chosen by God and he is the one who sent me to you. How then could it be blasphemy for me to say, ‘I am the Son of God!’  (TPT)    In John 10:34-36 above in context this is an argument between Christ and the Pharisees. Christ is asking them why they are accusing Him of blasphemy for saying He is the son of God, when the Pharisees also have it in their law that they are gods. The King James is a little hard to understand but I think the TPT wording should help clear this up for you. (Start with verse 24 and read the whole argument in context.)   As far as finding this reference to the Pharisees law, I am not sure that is necessary to find since it is in scripture and Christ is the one that said it.   The same word in Strong’s for “Law” can be used for Moses law or any law not pertaining to Moses law. Many Strong’s words include a number of meanings.   Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.    This needs to also be read in context. Look at verse number one. This is a meeting between God and some wicked “gods” with a small “g”. We know it is not talking about angels because God does not call angels sons or children. We also know it is not talking about men because of verse 7 where is says they will die like men, meaning they are not men. Whatever these entities are they were probably created and in heaven to start with now are on earth probably because they are evil/wicked. Since this set of verses is not really clear as to who these entities are you cannot use this set of verses to prove these are men and that men are gods.   Exo 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.    This verse is flat out saying that God has made Moses a “god” to Pharaoh. It is not saying that Moses is a god. Read the verse for what it says. God will just make Moses look like a god to Pharaoh because of all the miracles he will perform through Moses.   Exo 4:14  And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. Exo 4:15  And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. Exo 4:16  And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God. Exo 4:17  And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs.    Here again it is not saying that men are gods. Read it in context. God/Christ is telling them he is going to direct Moses’s mouth and Aaron’s mouth as to what they will say to Pharaoh so that Pharaoh believes he is dealing with a god. See verse 17 where some miracles will also be performed using God’s power through Moses and Aaron. It is not saying men are gods.   The power of God speaking through anyone of us can happen at any time, and does not mean we are gods. See the below scriptures:   Luk 12:11  And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: Luk 12:12  For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.    James Iron Sharpening Iron: One other point Laura you make from that section, “In the end most people will be born into the God family which would make us all like God, but we are not there yet.” However, as you know, 1 John 3:2 says, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”   Laura writes: 1Jn 3:1  Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1Jn 3:3  And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.    Again, read all verses in context of what is being said. There are many scriptures that talk about God’s elect being His children or His sons (daughters). That does not mean that you are gods now.   Notice verse 3 where you have to be pure like Christ in order to be like Christ. In verse 2 it says when Christ appears we shall be like Him. Has Christ appeared yet. This section of scripture is talking about the “First Fruits Resurrection”. That resurrection has not happened yet. In order to make that resurrection you have to be sinless. Are you sinless now?   James Iron Sharpening Iron: Laura, you wrote in regard to me saying the God of the OT was Yehovah the Father, that is where it can be really difficult to try to pin down what is what. Yes, I agree Yayshua was “the Rock” and it was he who showed his backside to Moses. Also, the pillar of fire at night and the cloud that lead the way and the Power of God.   The tricky part: Acts 3:13 says the Elohim [God] OF Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, our fathers, glorified His Son Jesus. See also Acts 5:30 for a second witness. So, if the God OF the OT was Jesus or Yayshua, then logically Jesus was the God who sent Himself down to earth! So how could Jesus who is the Son of God (1 John 4:15) be the God of the OT who “glorified His Son”? Did he glorify himself?   Laura writes: Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.    God the Father is the Father of all of us, not just Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Not sure why you even question that part as God the Father would still be the Father of us all whether He was the God of the Old Testament or not.   It was the Father that glorified Christ, but the second part of this verse is talking about the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ and has nothing to do with who was the God of the Old Testament. Actually, none of this verse has anything to do with who was the God of the Old Testament.   Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.    Again, God the Father is the one that raised Christ from the dead. Act 3:13 and Act 5:30 are both talking about things which were done in the New Testament, specifically the crucifixion, and resurrection.   1Jn 4:14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1Jn 4:15  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.    God the Father and Christ the Son had this set up before the foundation of the world that Christ would be the Saviour. The way that God sent Christ to the earth to be the savior was to use His power, the Holy Spirit, to impregnate Mary and He Christ came into the world as a baby.     1Pe 1:19  But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Pe 1:20  Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1Pe 1:21  Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.   James Iron Sharpening Iron: I listened to a study some time ago by Tom Bradford of Torahclass.com wherein he gave an explanation that Yayshua was THE AGENT OF the Almighty God, El Shaddai or the Father. Maybe similar to a State Highway Patrol Officer who might say, “Stop in the name of the Law!”, if I might put it into my own words. The Law (of any particular State) is the Authority (which has a real name) which power or authority is given to the agent or patrol officer.   Laura writes: I am not sure what you are trying to say here, if you are trying to say the Father is over the son, that would be true and Christ even says the Father is greater than he is, however Father and Son are one so Christ is working on His own in agreement with the Father.   James Iron Sharpening Iron: Laura, this is getting long but here is one more quote from you in regard to Rev. 3:14: “The Bible is pretty clear that God the Father did not make anything. So, what this is talking about is the power of God (the Holy Spirit) impregnated Mary and she had Christ as a baby who grew into a man and walked among us as a man.”   Question Laura: in my understanding the Son was not just the Son when he was sent to the earth to be born as a human being. Proverbs 30:4 “Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?” (or in original Hebrew, “surely you know”). In 1 John 4:14 it says the Father sent His Son. Yayshua was the Son from before anything was created. To me that includes any angels or spiritual beings were created by the Son. John 17:8 the Son said, “have known surely that I came out from thee..”. How? When? For me, Prov. 8:22 is in the running, “Yehovah [the LORD] possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth” [H2342; born, to be in labor (childbirth), amongst other meanings. So what was brought forth? Just wisdom or the One who was the Agent of the Father’s Wisdom, the Son?   Laura writes: Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;    The Bible is pretty clear that God the Father did not make anything. So, what this is talking about is the power of God (the Holy Spirit) impregnated Mary and she had Christ as a baby who grew into a man and walked among us as a man. Then Christ was crucified and then resurrected by God the Father. And yes, Christ is the First Fruit of the First Fruits but that is because He became a man and died and was resurrected. So, in that sense He is the first, but it is not saying He was created. Christ would not be able to create Himself anymore than He was able to resurrect Himself. God the Father has a part in all of this, but Christ is the one who is creating everything and when everything is complete, Christ will present the finished product to God the Father like a gift.     Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.    Here you are trying to prove that Christ was created by God the Father and I am telling you that is not true. When it uses the word beginning here it is talking about Christ being the beginning of the God Family. When He died and was resurrected, He was the beginning because He was the First of the First Fruits.   Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?    Proverbs 30:4 is a prophecy about Christ coming as our Savior. This is about the crucifixion and resurrection and how He created things on earth.   1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.   And here again God did send Christ to the earth as a baby to be the Savior of the world.    Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.   This is again talking about how God sent Christ as a flesh and blood human baby growing to adulthood to preach the gospel and die for the sins of all mankind.   Pro 8:22  The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Pro 8:23  I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.    This is from the wisdom chapter which is not talking about a person. Of course, wisdom has been with the Father and the Son forever. If they did not possess wisdom things would not go well for us either.   James Iron Sharpening Iron: That is the tough question I struggle with. Maybe I have to stop thinking so logically. Psalm 83:18 says, “That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.” And yet Zechariah 14:9 says when Yayshua [meaning, he is salvation] the Son returns to rule the earth, “And the Lord [JEHOVAH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord [JEHOVAH], and his name one.” Happy studying everyone!   Laura writes: Psa 18:18  They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay.    Zec 14:9  And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.    When it is talking about one Lord there, it is talking about the oneness of God. If you are married, you have a wife and you are one in purpose but two separate people. God the Father and Christ His Son are one in purpose and will rule that way, but they will always be two separate beings.   In conclusion, I believe you want to read into scripture your own words and ideas. Everyone does that some of the time, but you do it a lot. It is like you are on a mission to prove that Christ was created and that you are a god now both of which are not in scripture.   I understand that some subjects are really hard to understand for some people but if you would take the time to read each scripture in context you would understand what is being said. Another thing to do is read the entire bible from cover to cover and keep doing that for the rest of your life. When you finish the first time, start over again. Each time you do this, new understanding will be opened up to you. I have been reading a chapter a day and I do miss that sometimes. This time I am reading the 1611 King James Bible and I have been working on it since December of 2019. So, I know it takes a long time at a chapter a day, but you will be happy doing this as part of your studies.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God (Part 1) Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Avram Yehoshua (Tulsa, Oklahoma), Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota) & Darwin Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Avram writes: One question for you Laura: If we have God the Father and God the Son, what is missing from this obvious “Family” with a Father and a Son? A force? An “essence”? The terms father and son obviously speak of a family. The answer to the question is that “a mother” is missing from this father/son relationship. Can you see that? If there is a father and a son there has to be a mother.   Laura writes: God the Father and Christ the Son have no beginning and no end. They exist in eternity, something that is very hard for any of us to imagine at this time. If Christ had no beginning and no end, then the Father also had no beginning and no end.   What you are trying to do is apply how Christ created humans to the existence of the Father and the Son and I don’t think you can do that because they are God’s and not humans.   Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.    Psa 106:48 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.    Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.    When you become a spirit being you will not pro create so why would the Father and the Son pro create.   Mat 22:28  Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.    Mar 12:23  In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. Mar 12:24  And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? Mar 12:25  For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.    Throughout the Bible God is called the Father and Christ is called the Son because God the Father through His Power/Essence impregnated Mary a human and Mary gave birth to a human Christ. This is your family with a Father, Mother and Son. Throughout the Old Testament they are generally not referred to as Father and Son unless it is a prophetic scripture. The New Testament is full of scriptures referring to the Father and Son, because of Christ’s human birth.   Avram writes: Laura, saying that the Trinity is false doesn’t make it so. Jesus Himself spoke of the Holy Spirit being “a Person” when He said in John 14:16, “And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper (Greek: Parakletos), that He (literally “She” in Hebrew) may abide with you forever.” Jesus was the “present” Helper or Comforter when He spoke that in Israel, but when Jesus left, the Holy Spirit came: the “other” Comforter.   Laura writes: There is no place in scripture where the Holy Spirit is called a person. Even here in John 14:16 it clearly shows that the Holy Spirit is an essence that is in the Father, the Son and now in those that God is calling. A person is not going to be in you. God the Father and Christ the Son are connected to those being called because the Holy Spirit dwells in all three mentioned here.   Joh 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments. Joh 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Joh 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Joh 14:18  I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Joh 14:19  Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. Joh 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. Joh 14:21  He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.    Avram writes: Either Jesus is a Person and so is the Holy Spirit, or Jesus is just an essence of God, like your Holy Spirit, Laura. They both cannot be Comforters or Helpers, with one being a Person, but the other only being “an essence.” (As for most English translations speaking of the Holy Spirit as a “He,” which obviously is a Person, the Greek word for “he, she and it” are all the same (Greek: autos), and so it’s left up to the English translator to put in he/she, or it. Note well: No English translation of the Bible, that I know of, has “it” for the Holy Spirit, which a Bible would have to have if any translator thought the Holy Spirit was just the essence of God the Father and not a Person.   Also, if the Holy Spirit is “the essence of God,” as you write Laura, and is just a part of God the Father, why did this “essence” show up at Messiah’s Baptism in water as a separate entity? In other words, why were there Three Persons at Yeshua’s Baptism, one of them being the Dove, the Holy Spirit, if the Holy Spirit is just an extension or essence of the Father?   “And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a Dove upon Him (Jesus), and a Voice came from Heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son! In You I am well pleased!”” (Luke 3:22)   Laura writes: Christ is a Spirit and someday you will also become a spirit being. So yes, Christ came to earth and was born of Mary as a human baby and grew into a human man. While Christ was on earth, he was given God’s Spirit/Power without measure. These two verses are talking about the Holy Spirit:   Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. (KJV)   Joh 3:34 for he whom God sent, the sayings of God he speaketh; for not by measure doth God give the Spirit; (YLT)   As you should be able to see in context of these two verses that the Holy Spirit is not a person or Christ would have been walking the earth with this Holy Spirit person and He was not because the Holy Spirit was inside Him. The Holy Spirit is a part of Christ just like it is a part of God the Father. When people are called by God they receive the Holy Spirit which dwells inside them, not on the outside as another person would dwell. And a dove is not a person.   Avram writes: The Father was “the Voice,” and the Son of course was Yeshua, and the Dove was the Holy Spirit. Three, not Two. Scripture literally speaks of the Holy Spirit descending as a Dove. One can call the Holy Spirit “the essence of God,” not a Person, but why was this “essence” even there? Again, in any family on Earth there is always a father and a mother (and a son or a daughter). Never is there only two men; a father and his son.   Laura writes: If you have to ask why was the essence even there then you have no understanding of how people are called by God. When we are called by God, we are baptized in water and then we receive the Holy Spirit which leads us into all truth. The essence/Holy Spirit was there because Christ was being baptized.   Most of what you are trying to tell me is nonsense. God the Father and Christ have no beginning and no end. They have existed forever. You want to make the Holy Spirit into a person instead of being the essence and power of God and Christ. You are trying to tell us that the Holy Spirit is Christ’s Mother but all you can show for a person is a Dove. So, are we all to believe that God the Father, Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit His Mother are a family of Doves which you then call people? Do you even see how weird that sounds?   I tried to tell you before that all humans have what they call a “Human Spirit”. Now does that “Human Spirit” reside inside of us or outside of us? Do you have a “Human Spirit” walking around beside you like another person?   God the Father and Christ also have a spirit which dwells inside of them. It is called the “Holy Spirit”. The “Holy Spirit” is the POWER of God and Christ. They use this “Holy Spirit” to create a family from humans that dwell on earth by giving those who are called the “Holy Spirit”. We do not get the Holy Spirit in full measure as Christ did. If we use the Holy Spirit as we should to lead us into all truth, then what we have of the Holy Spirit grows inside of us until we are ready to be turned into spirit beings. If we do not use the Holy Spirit, then eventually the part that we received at baptism will disappear.   God the Father and Christ are Spirit Beings. The Holy Spirit is the Essence/Power of God the Father and Christ His Son.   Avram writes: THREE PERSONS—ONE GOD? How can the Three (the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit) be one God? Some Christians, realizing the logical enigma of the question, wrongly teach that the Father became or manifested Himself as Jesus, and that the Holy Spirit is not a person, but just a force or power, that is to say, the ‘spirit’ or ‘essence’ of God the Father. To illustrate this they use the concept of water being liquid at room temperature, but turning to ice or steam under different temperatures. Their understanding of how the Three are one God sounds reasonable, but most Christian theologians rightly reject this heresy called Modalism, even though they can’t explain, in simple, biblical terms, how the Three Persons are one God; not Three (or Two) Gods.   Laura writes: The church of God does not teach a trinity doctrine, nor do we believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. God the Father and Christ the Son are both separate spirit beings with the Holy Spirit dwelling inside them just as the human spirit dwells inside man. The Holy Spirit is the spirit and power of God the Father and Christ His Son. God the Father and Christ His Son are one in purpose but are still two separate spirit beings with the Holy Spirit dwelling inside them.   Avram writes: Searching God’s Word for His Truth on this matter we’ll see that the Three are distinct and divine Persons in Their own right, and yet, one God. We’ll also see that the Holy Spirit is the feminine Person of the Three. To help us realize these two points we’ll look at:   the Creation of Man, the words of Yeshua (the Hebrew name for Jesus) about Himself and the Holy Spirit, Dt. 6:4 (the first part of the great commandment of love called the Shema in Hebrew), Hebrew and Greek grammar, Proverbs, the ancient Eastern Church in Syria, and yes, even Paganism.   THE BIBLICAL KEY TO UNDERSTANDING The biblical key to understanding that the Three divine Persons are one God lies in realizing that Man (Adam and Eve; Gen. 5:1-2; and then their son Cain; Gen. 4:1) is a divine reflection or picture of the Three heavenly Beings. God (the Father) in Genesis 1:26 says (speaking to the Holy Spirit and the Son), ‘Let Us make Man in Our image and likeness.’ Image and likeness primarily speak of how Man came into existence and that the nature of the three earthly beings is identical (human nature).   Laura writes: Gen 5:1  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.    Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.    Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.    The above verses only mention God, more than one God. They do not say anything about the Holy Spirit.   Avram writes: Projecting this picture unto the Heavens, the Father, unlike Adam who was created, has always existed. Even though the Creation account doesn’t tell us, Yeshua says that the Holy Spirit came forth from the Father (John 15:26), words which Jesus speaks about Himself (cf. Jn. 16:27-28; 17:8), and which are similar to how Eve came forth from Adam. With Adam and Eve we have two distinct human beings, and yet, they are one in the very real sense that Eve literally came from Adam, and is exactly like him in his human nature, but obviously different, and yet, remains one with Adam, even though separate from him. Scripture affirms this oneness when it says:   “Therefore, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become (be or they are) *1* one flesh.” (Gen. 2:24; cf. 1st Cor. 12:12-14; Eph. 5:31-31)   Laura writes: You do realize this Comforter is being sent to those who are called by the Father, to lead them into truth and will testify of Christ (His Kingdom, His Laws, His Truth etc. etc.) This Comforter will be inside of those who are called and not walking around on the outside of them following them around like a person would. And of course it proceedeth from the Father, after all it is His spirit and His power.   Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:    Avram writes: Genesis 2:24 speaks of the two becoming or rather being one flesh, symbolically suggesting that the oneness of marriage is a throwback to the prototypical literal oneness that Eve had with Adam before ‘coming forth’ from him, and still had, even after she was her own person. Yeshua spoke of this oneness that a man has with his wife, and vice-versa, that is more than just sexual:   “And Yeshua answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the Beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and He said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two are one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, let not man separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6)   With Yeshua saying that ‘they are no longer two, but one flesh,’ a married couple take on the characteristic of oneness that the first human couple had, both before and after Eve came forth from Adam.   Laura writes: A husband and wife are one in purpose. Just like God the Father and Christ are one in purpose.   Joh 17:21  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Joh 17:22  And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: Joh 17:23  I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.    Avram writes: EVE—A REFLECTION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT Scripture opens with the declarative chapter ‘heading’ or title of the Book, that God, the God of Israel, made the Heavens and the Earth. The rest of the chapter tells us how that came about and what happened. In verse 2 we see the Spirit of God brooding or literally fluttering like a bird over the waters, which waters we’ll see pictures the Father.*2* Where and how the Spirit came upon the scene isn’t spoken of in Genesis, but Yeshua says that the Holy Spirit proceeded or came forth from the Father.*3* Even though we now have two divine Beings in Gen. 1:2, the Father, pictured in the Waters, and the Holy Spirit, the Two are one God because the Spirit literally came forth from the Father, as Eve came forth from Adam. Scripture speaks of the two as male and female and yet, as “Man.”   Even though Adam and Eve were obviously two different human beings, they had the exact same nature (human). Adam’s human nature wasn’t diminished when Eve came forth from him. The Father’s deity wasn’t diminished when the Spirit came forth from Him, and consequently, the deity of the Holy Spirit isn’t less than the Father’s deity any more than the humanity of Eve was less than Adam’s humanity. Both Adam and Eve were two separate and distinct human beings, yet Scripture calls them (one) Man. Comparing them to their heavenly counterparts we see two divine Persons (the Father and the Spirit), but one God:   “This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created Man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Man, in the day they were created.” (Genesis 5:1-2)   Adam reflects God the Father, and Eve is a reflection of the Holy Spirit. When Adam and Eve came together their union begot Cain. The three human beings were truly one, as Eve came from Adam, and Cain came from Adam and Eve. When the Father speaks for the first time in Scripture (Gen. 1:3), in union with the Holy Spirit, which is seen as fluttering over the living Waters of the Father; Yeshua, the Word of God, comes forth from the Father and the Spirit, similar to how Cain came forth from the union of Adam and Eve. The Three divine Beings are one God, just as it’s written that Adam and Eve (and Cain) are one. The oneness of Cain with his parents is self-evident—he being the product of their union and literally coming forth from them and having the exact human nature as they had.   When the Father, in Genesis 1:3, speaks and says, ‘Let there be light!,’ we know that it wasn’t the light of the sun, moon and stars because they weren’t created until Day Four (Gen. 1:14-19). The Light of Day One was God’s spoken, living Word, whom we know as Yeshua—The Word of God and the Light of the world, which the Apostle John speaks of (John 1:1-9; 8:12; Rev. 19:13). The sun is (only) a natural, created reflection or picture of Yeshua as the Light.   Neither the Spirit nor the Son were created. Both the Spirit and the Son were within God the Father from eternity past, similar to how Eve and Cain were ‘in’ Adam before they came forth.   Hopefully now, it’s easy to see that the Father didn’t ‘become’ the Son, but rather the Son is His own Person, separate from the Father (and the Spirit) and yet one with the Father and the Spirit; having the same nature as They and literally coming forth from Them. Also, the Holy Spirit is not just a force nor just the ‘spirit’ of God, but the Spirit of God, the Second Person of the God Family, as Eve was the second person of the first human family. The Three divine Beings are one God in that the Holy Spirit literally came forth from the Father, and that the Son literally came forth from the Father and the Holy Spirit, just as Eve came forth from Adam, and Cain came forth from their union. This is the biblical picture that Scripture gives us of how the Three are one God.   Laura writes: I am not sure which part of this you do not understand. You are teaching a false doctrine. The Holy Spirit is the Power of God, His Spirit. It is not His wife. When you make the Holy Spirit into God’s wife you are denying the Power of God, you’ve taken His Power and Spirit away from Him and made it into a separate person. It is a very false doctrine and there is no place in scripture where it says the Holy Spirit is a person.   In regard to your calling the Holy Spirit she, perhaps this will help:   Greek Gender Problems: Much of the confusion among English-speaking peoples (and in English translations of the Bible) regarding the nature of the Holy Spirit centers on the Greek language’s use of gender pronouns. Greek, like the Latin-based Romance languages (Spanish, French, Italian, etc.), uses a specific gender for each noun. Every object, animate or inanimate, is referred to as being either masculine, feminine or neuter.   In these and other languages, a noun’s gender is usually arbitrary and has nothing to do with whether it in reality refers to something masculine or feminine. For example, in French a book, livre, takes the masculine pronoun in speech and is referred to as a “he.” Likewise in German a girl, mädchen, is referred to in the neuter sense as an “it” and the Latin farmer, agricola, would have been referred to as a “she” since it is a feminine noun. By contrast, English nouns use pronouns that are directly related to the meaning of the noun, whether masculine, feminine or neuter.   In the New Testament, the words used most often in reference to the Holy Spirit are a mixture of masculine and neuter. The Greek word parakletos is translated “Comforter” or “Helper.” The comforter that Christ promised He would send to the disciples in the 14th, 15th and 16th chapters of John is a masculine word and thus would be referred to by the pronouns “he,” “him,” “his” and “himself” throughout those chapters. However, this is strictly a grammatical tool and not a statement on the nature of the Holy Spirit.   The other word used most often of the Holy Spirit is the Greek word pneuma. It is translated as “breath” or “spirit” and means breath, breeze, wind or spirit. It is the root of our modern word “pneumatic”, meaning pertaining to or operated by air or wind. Pneuma is a grammatically neuter word and thus should be referred to in English by such neuter terms as “it,” “its” or “itself.”   The translators of the King James Version, influenced by their own belief in the Trinity doctrine, generally mistranslated pronouns referring to pneuma as masculine rather than neuter. There are a few exceptions in the KJV in which the translation was properly handled, such as Romans 8:16, “The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.“   Later English translations of the Bible, following the lead of the King James Version, translated references to the Holy Spirit as masculine, thus it is almost always referred to as “he” or “him” in modern versions.   From “The Trinity – Examined” by Terry Bruns found in Issue No. 155   “The Trinity – Examined” is an excellent article which explains why the Holy Spirit is not a person and why we don’t teach that it is. It also explains the “Unpardonable Sin” which is when you deny the Power of God. The Holy Spirit is what leads you into all truth. It is the Power of God working in us to convert us so we can live forever with God. If you deny that Power working inside of you, there is nothing more that God can do for you. You will be lost. When you make the Holy Spirit into God’s wife then you are denying the Power of God.     FOOTNOTES *1*This is what the Hebrew actually states, and also, Yeshua affirms this in Mt. 19:6.   *2*We’ll see that the waters of Genesis 1:2 speak of God the Father, in the section, What Waters? p. 10.   *3*‘But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father, She shall testify of Me.’ (John 15:26 from the Hebrew)

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? (Part 2) Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Avram Yehoshua (Tulsa, Oklahoma), Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota) & Darwin Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Avram writes: THE GOD FAMILY With Yeshua speaking of Himself as the Son of God, and also, saying that God was His Father, we have a family relationship between the Two, and also, two of the three people needed for a core family. The Three divine Beings are the God Family, just as Adam, Eve and Cain were the original human family. Because there are already two male figures with the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit must be female—the Mother in the divine God Family of Father and Son.   The first verse of the two verses of the Shema (Dt. 6:4-5) lends itself for us to realize that the term ‘one,’ in the last phrase, “Yahveh is one!,” actually speaks of the Three divine Beings in Their oneness. An accurate translation of the Hebrew text for Dt. 6:4 states, ‘Hear, Oh Israel! Yahveh*4* is our God! Yahveh is one!’*5*   The word for ‘one’ in Hebrew is אֶחַד eh’had, which can speak of two or more humans being ‘one.’*6* It’s the same Hebrew word for a man and his wife, two people, being one flesh (Gen. 2:24). Therefore, it’s more than reasonable to see the term ‘one’ in the Shema presenting the divine Trio as One (God); one God Family. Using the specific and personal name of the God of Israel, Yahveh, like the last name for the God Family—the Three divine Persons are:   Father Yahveh, Mother Yahveh (the Holy Spirit), and Son Yahveh (Yeshua).   All Three are Yahveh, just as father Smith, mother Smith and baby Smith all have Smith as their last name and are one family, distinguished by their first names. The Shema speaks of the unity of Father Yahveh, Mother Yahveh and Yeshua (Son) Yahveh as One God Family, just as Adam, Eve and Cain were one family, and obviously “one.” Having a Father and a Son in the God Family scripturally means that the Holy Spirit has to be the Mother. Having a third Man in the God Family, as the Western Church teaches for their Trinity, is not only unreasonable, it’s absurd and truly unbiblical.   The Father, the Holy Spirit and the Son are the God Family. This is established from Scripture from the use of the family terms, father and son. The God Family created Adam (Gen. 1:26), and from Adam, Eve literally came into existence, and from their union they had a son (and many other children, but the initial picture of the three is what we’ll center on for now).   Laura writes: Again, your trinity is no different than the trinity most people hold to. The only difference is that in your version you believe the Holy Spirit is the wife of God and mother of Christ and is a separate person from both.   Numerous times I have told you we do not believe in the trinity doctrine, no matter what version you present to us and we do not teach a trinity doctrine because it is not in scripture. You have presented no verses which say the Holy Spirit is a person and there is nothing in scripture which says God the Father has a wife which is the Mother of Christ. You are either making it all up, or getting it from someplace else, based on not understanding the nature of the Holy Spirit or what scripture says.   Avram writes: THE FEMALE HOLY SPIRIT This biblical understanding of the Three Persons being a Family, reflected in Yeshua speaking of Himself as the Son and the Father as His Father, as well as God (Elohim; literally Gods) making Man (Adam and Eve) in His/Their image, presents the Holy Spirit as the female Person of the God Family. Western Christianity teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Man—a Gentleman, if you will, but what’s wrong with this God Family if the Holy Spirit is a Man?   If there are Three Men in the God Family, what would the Holy Spirit’s relationship with the Father and the Son be? Would the Spirit be a Brother to the Father, and hence, an Uncle to the Son? I hope you can see how foolish that is because there isn’t any earthly family with three males at its core. There has to be a wife/mother in order for a child to be born and for it to be a family with a father and a son (for our example; a son instead of a daughter); not a father, another man and a son.   We know from Scripture that God created Man as Adam and Eve, not as two men, but a man and a woman, and every human family must have a woman as the wife/mother, not a man. Also, with the use of Adam, Eve and Cain as the earthly reflection of the God Family, it’s clearly revealed that the Holy Spirit has to be the Wife and Mother in the God Family. If this is not the case, then we have three Men as the God Family—which is a biblical and natural absurdity. As for Laura’s “essence” of God being the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit must be a Person for there to be both a Father (God) and the Son (God). There can’t be the Father and the Son…and an essence, for Adam and Eve (and Cain) to be a reflection of the Godhead. MAN was made in God’s Image and Likeness:   “Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our Image, according to Our Likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the Earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”” (Genesis 1:26)   We know from both New Testament and Old Testament*7* Scripture that there is a Father and a Son, so the Holy Spirit must be the female in the God Family. Western Christianity is wrong about the gender of the Holy Spirit. Four more points will bear witness to the Holy Spirit being the divine female of the God Family: Hebrew and Greek grammar in both Testaments, Proverbs, the Eastern Church, and Paganism.   Laura writes: This is pretty much all nonsense. The Holy Spirit is the Essence/Power of God. The Holy Spirit is not God’s wife or Christ’s mother. It is not in scripture.   Avram writes: HEBREW AND GREEK GRAMMAR Grammatically, whenever the Hebrew term for Holy Spirit (Ru’ach HaKodesh) or Spirit (ru’ach) is the subject of a phrase it’s always feminine in the Old Covenant, not masculine. It’s a feminine noun and consequently, all its corresponding verbs and pronouns, etc., are also feminine. From the Greek New Testa­ment, translated into Hebrew for Israelis today, whenever Spirit or Holy Spirit is the subject of the phrase it’s always feminine too. For example, in Luke 3:22 it speaks of the Holy Spirit descending upon the Messiah in the form of a dove:   “And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a Dove upon Him, and a Voice came from the Heavens, which said, ‘You are My beloved Son. In You I am well pleased.’” (Luke 3:22)   The Hebrew verb descended is יָרְדָה (yar’dah), a third person feminine verb, and so the Hebrew is saying, ‘And the Holy Spirit, She descended upon Him.’*8* For those of you who know Hebrew the sentence reads:   וְרוּחַ הַקֹּדֶשׁ יָרְדָה עָלָיו בִּדְמוּת גַּשְׁמִית כְּיוֹנָה, וְקוֹל הָיָה מִן הַשָּׁמַיִם: אַתָּה בְּנִי אֲהוּבִי, בְּךָ חָפַצְתִּ.   All English New Testaments though, translated from the Greek New Testament, speak of the Holy Spirit as a ‘He’ (e.g. Jn. 15:26). Wrongly translating the Scriptures is not new. For instance, the revered King James Bible, which some say is inerrant or without a single error, fails to translate Hebrews 4:9 accurately. It states,   “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.” (Hebrews 4:9)   The problem lies with translating the Greek word as “rest.” The Greek word is Sabbatismos, and one needn’t be a Greek scholar to see “Sabbath” in the word. So, as most English translations have, it’s “Sabbath rest;” not just “rest:”   “There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.” (Hebrews 4:9 NASB)   Did the KJV translator make a mistake? No. He intentionally avoided “Sabbath rest” because to him, the Sabbath had been “done away with Jesus” at the Cross. He was projecting into the sentence his theology, which is called eisegesis. “Eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one’s own presuppositions, agendas or biases.” Welcome to English translations of the New Testament about Mosaic Law being God’s New Testament lifestyle for all Christians. Christians are to walk in all Mosaic Law that applies to them; just as Jesus and all His Apostles did all their lives.   Today there is considerable debate in the scholarly world about the Holy Spirit being feminine or masculine, causing many theologians to reassess the gender of the Spirit. For instance, Greek scholar and theologian Daniel Wallace believes that the Holy Spirit is feminine in the Greek New Testament, and says,   ‘it is difficult to find any text in which πνευμα (pneuma; Spirit) is grammatically referred to with the masculine gender.” *9*   This affirms what we saw with the God Family and the Creation account.   Laura writes: Please pay attention, you are taking scriptures and trying to get them to say things they do not say so I believe this applies to you:   “He was projecting into the sentence his theology, which is called eisegesis. “Eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one’s own presuppositions, agendas or biases.”   It’s a quote from what you just said here.   Avram writes: THE DEITY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT Just as a godly mother prepares her daughter for marriage, so too the Holy Spirit prepares the Bride of Messiah for the heavenly Marriage with Yeshua (Rev. 19:7, 9; 21:2, 9, 17; cf. Eph. 5:22-25). This Comforter or Helper, like Yeshua, was sent to Israel in Acts 2:1f. Yeshua also spoke of the Holy Spirit being in every believer:   “the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Her nor knows Her, but you know Her, for She dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17; cf. Acts 9:31; Eph. 2:18) *10*   Laura writes: Look at this, now you are dividing the Mother into pieces and giving the pieces to others. Do you yet see why the Holy Spirit cannot be a person? You can’t divide people into pieces because soon there would be no pieces left.   On the other hand the Power/Essence of God can be put into many people and God never looses a piece of His person. Think about it.   Avram writes: Theologians refer to the Holy Spirit as the Paraklete παράκλητος (literally; para­kletos, i.e. paraklete), the One like Yeshua, who was sent to take His place; the ‘Helper’ (Comforter, Counselor), which is what the Greek term Paraklete means. This speaks of the Spirit being both deity and a Person. The Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament states that Paraklete means, “one who appears in another’s behalf, mediator, intercessor, helper.” *11* Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament says it means, “a helper, succorer, aider, assistant; so of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper know­ledge of…truth.” *12*   Walter Bauer’s, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, says that because of the use of the Greek word Paraclete, the Holy Spirit is seen as the complement to the Lord Yeshua Himself:   “The Spirit is more closely defined by…John 14:17; 15:26; 16:13 (in these three places the Spirit of Truth is the Paraclete promised by Jesus upon his depar­ture).” *13*   Interesting to note is that ‘helper’ (or help-mate) is what God spoke of Eve for Adam:   “So, Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. And the Lord God caus­ed a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in its place.” (Genesis 2:20-21 NKJV; ASV and KJV: help meet; NASB, NIV and NRSV: helper)   The Holy Spirit is the divine Helper, comparable to Yeshua, as Eve was to Adam. The Spirit is the Helper, Life Giver, Comforter, Counselor for the Bride of Messiah, of which Yeshua is the Bridegroom. This though, isn’t the first time that the Holy Spirit has walked in Her role of Helper. She was also a divine Helper of Papa God (and Yeshua) in Creation, and again, is akin to Eve in her relationship with Adam, as they ‘made their world,’ filling it with human beings, as they were ‘fruitful and multiplied,’ being the progenitors of the human race. In other words, Eve ‘helped’ Adam in that and of course, in the Garden (Gen. 2:15, 18).   The word for helper is עֵזֶר (ezer), and even though we know that God would give Eve as the one who was that helper, comparable to Adam, ezer is a masculine noun. So, the sentence is literally saying that God would make Adam a male helper like himself, but we know that’s not true because God made Eve, a woman, to help Adam.   The Holy Spirit is the Helper, comparable to Yeshua (another Helper; Jn. 14:16), that is given to us. This, along with מְנַחֵם Menachem (the masculine Hebrew word for Comforter), reveals that it’s not unusual for the Greek masculine noun for Comforter (Parakletos) to be used of the Spirit (four times in John), or that a masculine pronoun (aekaynos; ‘he’) is used twice in John to refer to the Holy Spirit as the Comforter. The point is that in Hebrew the Holy Spirit is feminine, yet the masculine noun ezer is used to describe how Eve, a woman, would be used in Adam’s life, and the masculine Hebrew noun Menachem is used for Comforter in John 14:16). In other words, even though the Greek Paraclete (Comforter) is masculine, it doesn’t mean the Holy Spirit is masculine.   All believers are Born Again, of the Spirit and the Water. Hence there are many ‘children’ of God just as there were many children to Adam and Eve. More on this in the section, What Waters?   Only deity can be in more than one place at one time. This is understood for both the Father and the Son, and also for the Holy Spirit, who dwells within every Christian. Also, with the Spirit being sent ‘in place of Yeshua,’ Her deity and Personhood is established.*14* Therefore, just as Eve was one with Adam and yet, separate, distinct, comparable to him and female, so too the Holy Spirit, for She is a divine Person in Her own right; separate and distinct from Papa God and Yeshua; the feminine divine Helper for the Bride of Messiah.   Laura writes: The Holy Spirit is not a person. Sometimes it looks like you don’t even know in your own false doctrine whether the Holy Spirit which you say is a person, is male or female?     FOOTNOTES *4*The name Yahveh is the personal name of the God of Israel, used 6,823 times in the Old Testament (Tanach).   *5*The KJV has, “The Lord our God is one Lord,” and realizing that the KJV Lord is actually the personal name of the God of Israel, Yahveh, it reads, “Yahveh our God is one Yahveh” which doesn’t make any sense. There are other translations that try and emphasize either that there is only one God or that Israel shouldn’t worship any other gods, but they have to add ‘alone’ to their translation, so that it reads, “The Lord is our God, the Lord alone” (NRSV), but ‘alone’ isn’t in the Hebrew text.   *6*R. L. Harris, editor; Gleason Archer, Jr. and Bruce Waltke, associate editors, Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, vol. I, p. 30 (Accordance Bible Software). In the Shema of Dt. 6:4, the term ‘one’ presents the idea of diversity within unity and has theological implications. Some scholars have felt that, though ‘one’ is singular, the usage of the word allows for the doctrine of the Trinity. The concept of unity is related to the Tabernacle, whose curtains are fastened together to form one unit or one Tabernacle (Ex. 26:6, 11; 36:13). Adam and Eve are described as ‘one flesh’ (Gen. 2:24), which includes more than sexual unity. In Gen. 34:16 the men of Shechem suggest intermarriage with Jacob’s children in order to become ‘one people.’ Later, Ezekiel predicted that the fragmented nation of Israel would someday be reunited or ‘one’, as he symbolically joined two sticks (Ezk. 37:17). Once again Judah and Ephraim would be one nation with one king (37:22). Abraham was viewed as ‘the one’ from whom all the people descended (Is. 51:2; Mal. 2:15), the one father of the nation.   *7*Psalm 2:7: “I will declare the decree: Yahveh has said to Me, ‘You are My Son! Today I have begotten You!” Proverbs 30:4: “Who has ascended into the Heavens, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the Earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, If you know?” Is. 49:1, 5 speaks of Messiah coming from the womb and matrix of His Mother: Is. 49:1, 5: “Listen, coastlands, to Me! Take heed, you peoples from afar! Yahveh has called Me from the womb; from the matrix of My Mother He has made mention of My name…And now Yahveh says, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, to bring Jacob back to Him so that Israel is gathered to Him. For I shall be glorious in the eyes of Yahveh, and My God shall be My strength.”   *8*For a more detailed article on the Holy Spirit being feminine ask me for The Holy Spirit is a Lady. Contact me by email through my HomePage of The SeedofAbraham.net.   *9*Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of New Testament Greek (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996), p. 332.   *10*In the Hebrew New Testament for John 14:17, all the verbs for Comforter or Helper are feminine, and so all the pronouns should be feminine, too (e.g. ‘She’ instead of ‘He’).   *11*Walter Bauer, augmented by William F. Arndt, F. W. Gingrich and Frederick Danker, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (third edition, 2001), p. 766.   *12*Thayer, Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Accordance Bible Software), paragraph 7302.   *13*Walter Bauer, augmented by William F. Arndt, F. W. Gingrich and Frederick Danker, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (London: The University of Chicago Press, 1979), p. 677.   *14*Thayer, Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, πνεῦμα, paragraph 7775: “In some passages the Holy Spirit is rhetorically represented as a Person…John 14:16f., 26; 15:26; 16:13-15 (in which passages from John the personification was suggested by the fact that the Holy Spirit was about to assume with the apostles the place of a person, namely of Christ)…1 Cor. 12:11; what anyone through the help of the Holy Spirit has come to understand or decide upon is said to have been spoken to him by the Holy Spirit…Acts 8:29; 10:19; 11:12; 13:4” (cf. Is. 63:10).

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God (Part 3) Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Avram Yehoshua (Tulsa, Oklahoma), Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota) & Darwin Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

PROVERBS In Proverbs, as well as other places of Scripture, *15* Wisdom is not just an abstract noun, but seen as a personal noun—the personification of the Spirit of God. Wisdom is always feminine in Hebrew (Hoch’ma) (and also in Greek: Sophia). Wisdom is seen as a divine female Person. Here are some examples:   “Yahveh possessed Me at the Beginning of His way, before His works of old (i.e. Creation). I have been established from everlasting, from the Beginning, before there was ever an Earth. When there were no depths I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.” (Proverbs 8:22-24)   “Then I was beside Him as a master craftsman, and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him.” (Proverbs 8:30)   “For whoever finds Me finds life and obtains favor from Yahveh.” (Proverbs 8:35) Theologian John Goldingay, quoting another theologian named Camp, speaks of Wisdom in Proverbs as a woman, saying,   “Proverbs’ portrait of wisdom has taken many forms: ‘she is as awesome as a goddess, as playful as a small child, as comfortable as a mother’s arms, as challenging as a prophet, as satisfying as a table laden with food, as mysterious as a lover hidden among the lilies’ (Camp).” *16*   The description of Wisdom in Proverbs is a very apt description of the Holy Spirit as the Wife/Mother in the God Family.   Laura writes: The Holy Spirit is not a person and wisdom is just that wisdom.    Avram writes: THE EASTERN CHURCH The Eastern Church in Syria, from ancient times, has taught that the Holy Spirit has a feminine nature. The Holy Spirit is seen as the life-bearer of the faith, which speaks of a woman having a child (life) within her (believers). Clement of Alexandria, who lived from 150-215 AD, knew the Gospel of John, was exceptionally learned in the Greek classics and spoke Greek fluently, having been born, raised and trained in Athens, Greece. *17* In other words, Clement knew Greek better than American Greek scholars today, who translate the Greek New Testament into English and give the Holy Spirit masculine pronouns like “He.” Clement wrote that She, the Holy Spirit, is an indwelling Bride. *18*   The Syrian language, which was in use around 300 AD, is derived from Aramaic. In documents produced in Syriac by the early Miaphysite church (which later became the Syrian or Eastern Orthodox Church) the grammatical feminine gender for the Spirit gave rise to a theology in which the Spirit was considered feminine. *19* Writers in Syrian, both orthodox and Gnostic, used maternal images when speak­ing of the Holy Spirit. While scholars generally agree that grammatical gender is not necessarily correlative to personal gender, Eastern Orthodox theologian Susan Harvey considers the grammatical gender to have been significant for early Syrian Christianity:   ‘It seems clear that for the Syrians, the cue from grammar—ru’ach as a feminine noun—was not entirely gratuitous. There was real meaning in calling the Spirit ‘She.’” *20*   The biblical symbol of the Holy Spirit is not a lion, nor an ox, but a dove.*21* A lion tears its prey apart, and symbolically, this is what will happen to all the foes of Yeshua, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah,*22* when He returns, but the dove is gentle, which is a quality of every godly woman (vs. being aggressive and domineering).    Paul writes,   “But the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5:22–23)   The Spirit’s responsibility is to foster those divine qualities within the Bride of Messiah, not the war-like qualities of King David. We are of “another Kingdom” (cf. John 18:36). To love your enemy was not in David’s vocabulary. Those who argue against the Holy Spirit being feminine because ‘language shouldn’t determine gender,’ fail to realize that it’s not only grammar that makes the Spirit female. Having the Spirit masculine places three men in the God Family, which is ri­diculous because the God Family is pictured in the first earthly family, and Yeshua speaks of His Father and He is the Son. The Holy Spirit has to be the feminine Person because of those two reasons, and also, the Spirit is the divine counterpart and Helper to God the Father, just as Eve was to Adam:   “And Yahveh God said, ‘It is not good that man (Adam) should be alone. I will make him a helper comparable to him.’” (Genesis 2:18)   We know that Adam’s helper was Eve, a female. The Holy Spirit is the feminine Helper comparable to the Father, and not “an essence” of the Father because it speaks of the Holy Spirit coming forth from the Father as Eve did from Adam. In both Aramaic/Syrian and Hebrew grammar the feminine gender of the Spirit correctly represents the feminine reality of the Holy Spirit.   Laura writes: First of all we are not of the “Eastern Orthodox Church” and whatever made you believe you could teach us the pagan doctrines of another church is beyond me.   Here is the first half of His Trinity Doctrine:   Trinity[edit] Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in a monotheistic conception of God (God is only one), which is both transcendent (wholly independent of, and removed from, the material universe) and immanent (involved in the material universe).[5] In discussing God’s relationship to his creation, Eastern Orthodox theology distinguishes between God’s eternal essence, which is totally transcendent, and his uncreated energies, which is how he reaches humanity.[5] The God who is transcendent and the God who touches mankind are one and the same.[5] That is, these energies are not something that proceed from God or that God produces, but rather they are God himself: distinct, yet inseparable from God’s inner being.[6]   Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in a single God who is both three and one (triune); the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, “one in essence and undivided”.[5] The Trinity, three distinct, divine persons (hypostases), without overlap or modality among them, who each have one divine essence (ousia, Greek: οὐσία)—uncreated, immaterial, and eternal.[7] The Father is eternal and not begotten and does not proceed from any, the Son is eternal and begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit is eternal and proceeds from the Father.[5] Eastern Orthodox doctrine regarding the Trinity is summarised in the Nicene Creed.[8] The essence of God being that which is beyond human comprehension and cannot be defined or approached by human understanding.[9] Eastern Orthodox theology – Wikipedia   Avram writes: PAGANISM Some might say that Christianity cannot have a Wife/Mother Goddess because paganism has a wife/mother goddess, along with its husband/father god and son-savior god. The pagan trinity was worshiped all over the ancient world, having different names for the three gods for each culture or country; from Babylon, Greece, Rome and Egypt to Mexico, Peru, Europe and China, etc.*23*   One could say, ‘The pagan trinity, with its female goddess, is pagan,’ and of course he would be right, but the question arises:   “Why would Satan have a wife/mother goddess as part of his trinity if the God Family didn’t have a female?”   Was it Satan’s perversion of the Three Men in the (Christian) God Family?, or the Two Men in Laura’s God Kingdom? The reason why Satan has a trinity with a female goddess is because Satan counterfeited the heavenly God Family right down to its feminine deity. After all, Satan is the Master Counterfeiter, and a counterfeit is only as good as the Real Thing that it mimics.   For example, there are many counterfeit $100 bills in the USA, but there aren’t any counterfeit $40 bills because there aren’t any real $40 bills. No one would accept a $40 bill because they know that no real ones exist. When we realize that both the satanic trinity and the true God Family have three in them, and that they both have a father and a son, and that Satan has a wife/mother goddess, how can it be that the Western Church’s God Family has three Men?! and Laura’s God Family, for that is what the terms “Father” and “Son” speak of, a God Family, have only Two Men? What kind of a family is that?! Even Satan knew enough not to have three men in his trinity family, or only Two Men!   Alexander Hislop writes of the many gods and goddesses that proliferated paganism but says that initially there was only a supreme father god, and from him came the wife-mother goddess, and from them, their son. Sound familiar? This is the satanic version of how the true Holy Spirit and the Son came forth from God the Father, and also of course, how Eve and Cain came from Adam. Speaking of the primary wife-mother goddess, Hislop states: “Fundamentally, there was but one goddess—the (pagan) Holy Spirit, represented as female…that all the children of God are at once begotten of the Father and born of the Spirit, and under this idea, the Spirit of God, as Mother, was represented under the form of a dove, in memory of the fact that the Spirit, at the creation, ‘fluttered’—for so…is the exact meaning of the term in Genesis 1:2—‘on the face of the waters.’ This goddess was called Ops, ‘the flutterer,’ or Juno, ‘The Dove.’” *24*   Much of paganism is a perverse reflection of the true religion. The pagan trinity then, is not a liability to the Holy Spirit being feminine, but actually an asset and yet another affirmation. Paganism confirms that the true God Family consists of a Father, a Mother and a Son. *25*   Satan has counterfeited all of God’s concepts and symbols of salvation, sin, how to deal with guilt, and eternal life, etc., and so we need to discern the difference between what has been counterfeited by Satan and is a reflection of God and His ways, and what he has come up with on his own (e.g. his use of the five pointed star inside a circle). Satan has both in his Kingdom of Darkness. For instance, one of the symbols of the pagan holy spirit is the dove. *26* This obviously, is the pagan counterpart to the Holy Spirit as a dove. *27* Should Christians give up the symbol of a dove because Satan has taken it? Of course not. We have to be aware of it though, much the way we have to be aware that there are tares among us (Mt. 13:24-30). The point is that we can’t unequivocally say that every concept or symbol of Satan is wrong. This is especially true when it comes to the feminine person/goddess of the false and pagan Holy Spirit, which is a counterfeit reflection of the true Holy Spirit.   Laura writes: The Bible is the authority that teaches us about God the Father and Christ His Son. Again, we do not believe in a trinity, and we certainly do not believe the Holy Spirit is a person. When you take the Power of the Holy Spirit away from God the Father and tell everyone that the mother which you believe to be the Holy Spirit is the one that is in charge of giving everyone a piece of the Holy Spirit you make God of no effect and put the mother in charge. You can read from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find even a hint of a wife for God the Father or a mother for Christ the son as being a person mother which is the Holy Spirit. I have no idea what you are reading but it sure is not the word of God.   Go back up to the part where Avram talks about Proverbs and see this part:   In Proverbs, as well as other places of Scripture, *15* Wisdom is not just an abstract noun but seen as a personal noun—the personification of the Spirit of God. Wisdom is always feminine in Hebrew (Hoch’ma) (and also in Greek: Sophia). Wisdom is seen as a divine female Person. Here are some examples:   Now read this:   In Gnosticism, Sophia is a feminine figure, analogous to the human soul but also simultaneously one of the feminine aspects of God. Gnostics held that she was the syzygy (female twin divine Aeon) of Jesus (i.e. the Bride of Christ), and Holy Spirit of the Trinity. She is occasionally referred to by the Hebrew equivalent of Achamōth (Ἀχαμώθ, Hebrew: חכמה chokhmah) and as Prunikos (Προύνικος). In the Nag Hammadi texts, Sophia is the lowest Aeon, or anthropic expression of the emanation of the light of God. From: Sophia (Gnosticism) – Wikipedia   Now go up and read what Avram is telling us under the heading of Proverbs about Wisdom, then come back and read this:   Jewish Alexandrine religious philosophy was much occupied with the concept of the Divine Sophia, as the revelation of God’s inward thought, and assigned to her not only the formation and ordering of the natural universe (comp. Clem. Hom. xvi. 12) but also the communication of knowledge to mankind. In Proverbs 8 Wisdom (the noun is feminine) is described as God’s Counsellor and Workmistress (Master-workman, R.V.), who dwelt beside Him before the Creation of the world and sported continually before Him. Sophia (Gnosticism) – Wikipedia   Avram writes: WHAT WATERS? Many think that the waters spoken of in Gen. 1:2 are either of this planet (wrongly believing that the Earth, being ‘without form and void,’ refers to the Earth already existing), or another planet before this one that God created and then destroyed, but that isn’t what Scripture is saying. The Earth being ‘without form and void’ reveals that the Earth had not yet been created. Any physical object, like the Earth, that is without form, doesn’t exist. Something that is void, in this case referring to the Earth, is Scripture’s way of emphasizing (without form and void) that the Earth hadn’t yet been created.   Laura writes: We also do not believe in or teach a “Gap Theory”.   Avram writes: The Earth wouldn’t be created until Day Three (Gen. 1:9).   Genesis 1:1, stating that God created the Heavens and the Earth, simply means that verse one is the ‘chapter heading’ for the beginning of the Bible. Verse two and following tells the Story. Obviously then, the waters of Gen. 1:2 cannot be any waters of the Earth, for the Earth didn’t exist in verse two. The waters*32* before Creation, of Gen. 1:2, are God the Father (cf. Psalm 24:1-2; 29:3; 104:3; 148:4). The Spirit of God was hovering over God the Father (the Waters), and then the Father speaks of Light (v. 3), and Yeshua comes forth from the Father and the Spirit, similar to how Cain came forth from Adam and Eve.   Laura writes: All garbage. Do not believe what he is saying.   Avram writes: Now we know why Yeshua was immersed/baptized in water, saying to John that all righteousness should be fulfilled, when John the Baptist spoke of needing to be immersed (baptized) by Yeshua. Yeshua wasn’t immersed ‘to identify with sinful Israel,’ nor any one of a number of other Christian guesses. When we see Yeshua immersed in the Jordan and coming forth from the waters, we see a living pictorial reenactment of Genesis 1:2-3—the Word of God, Yeshua, coming forth from the Father and the Spirit as the Light and literal living Word of God. Confirming this understanding is that when Yeshua comes up from the waters of John’s Baptism, the Father’s Voice is heard, and the Spirit is seen as a Dove (Mt. 3:16-17). Three Persons. The Three are there as it was on Day One of Creation Week.   Laura writes: We feed doves at our house, two different kinds and I can assure everyone that doves are birds, they are not people. Do you have any idea how foolish you sound when you keep saying that doves are people?   Avram writes: Baptism in water for Christians signifies their coming forth as a new creation from the Father and the Spirit due to the life-transforming blood of Yeshua. When Yeshua spoke to Nicodemus and said, “unless one is born of Water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God” (John 3:5), Yeshua was speaking of the miracle of the re-creation of Man; of being Born Again in the image of Yeshua (Rom. 6:5), through God the Father, represented by the Waters, and the Holy Spirit.   Laura writes: Man is not born again until he becomes sinless and is changed into a spirit being.   Avram writes: The Hebrew New Testament uses the article ‘the’ before water, literally waters, as that is always the case in Hebrew, and grammatically this makes Waters a proper noun. This more than suggests that Yeshua was speaking of the Father as the Waters. Yeshua spoke Hebrew, not Greek, and so the article would be there.   Laura writes: I have news for you, God the Father and Christ the Son can speak any language there is on earth or in heaven. Do not limit our awesome God.   Avram writes: This is the reason why being a ‘good person’ is not good enough on Judgment Day. Only this spiritual reality of being Born Again allows one to become a new creature “in Christ” that will be able to stand in the fiery presence of God the Father, forever and hence, to be able to live in His Kingdom. This is why it’s very important to be water baptized. It’s a spiritual identification, showing the person and others that he is a member of the Family of God and that his sins have been washed away (Acts 2:38).   The following are Scriptures where Yeshua speaks of coming forth from the Father, and note also, how Yeshua speaks of His Father, which means that the Father is not the Son, and so there must be a Woman in this God Family:   “Yeshua said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God, nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.” (John 8:42)   “for the Father Himself loves you because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God. I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.” (Jn. 16:27-28)   “Now we are sure that You know all things and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.” (Jn. 16:30)   “For I have given to them the words which You have given Me and they have received them, and have surely known that I came forth from You and they have believed that You sent Me.” (Jn. 17:8)   No prophet or king of Israel ever spoke like this. Prophets speak of being sent by God, which Yeshua speaks of too, but no prophet ever spoke of coming forth or proceeding from God. Truly, Yeshua is God the Son. Yeshua also speaks of the Holy Spirit coming forth from the Father, which allows us to understand how the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of God) was on the scene in Genesis 1:2:   “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father, She will testify of Me.” (John 15:26)   And just as Adam and Eve had many more children than just Cain, so too has God many more sons than just Yeshua:   “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become Sons of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:12-13; cf. 1st Cor. 12:12, 20)     FOOTNOTES *15*Job 28:12, 18, 20, 28; Prov. 1:41; 8:1-36; 9:1f., etc.   *16*John Goldingay, Proverbs, New Bible Commentary: 21st Century Edition; ed. D. A Carson, et al.; Accordance electronic ed. (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1994), p. 591.   *17*http://orthodoxwiki.org/Clement_of_Alexandria.   *18*http://www.pistissophia.org/The_Holy_Spirit/the_holy_spirit.html.   *19*http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume3/spirit.htm.   *20*Harvey, Feminine Imagery, p. 136.   *21*Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32 (cf. Gen. 1:2; 8:8-12).   *22*Heb. 7:14; Rev. 5:5; cf. Luke 1:32; Rev. 22:16.   *23*The Two Babylons—The Full Hislop, pp. 12-17, 20, 60, 117, etc.   *24*Ibid., p. 303 in Hislop’s book; p. 241 in The Two Babylons—The Full Hislop.   *25*For more understanding on the feminine reality of the Holy Spirit, ask for the article, The Holy Spirit is a Lady through the website, The Seed of Abraham.   *26*For a greater understanding of just how vast Satan’s counterfeiting of God’s Kingdom is, read Alexander Hislop’s The Two Babylons—The Full Hislop pp. 14, 60-61, 84-85, 97, 109-111, etc., for the pagan holy spirit being a dove (and a goddess).   *27*Luke 3:22; Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; John 1:32.   *28*For example, Mt. 8:29; 16:13-16; 26:63-64; Mk. 1:1; 5:7; John 10:36; 12:26-28, 49-50; Acts 8:37; 13:33; Rom. 1:3; 1st Cor. 1:9; 2nd Cor. 1:19; 2nd Tim. 1:2; Heb. 4:14; 1st John 1:3, 7; 2:22; 3:23; etc.   *29*For example, John 5:19, 30, 36, 45; 6:32, 39; 8:28, 49; 10:17, 36; 11:41; 14:6, etc.   *30*Matthew 3:16-17, etc.   *31*John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7.   *32*The term water is always plural in Scripture; waters, just as the word heaven is always plural; heavens.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God (Part 4) Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Avram Yehoshua (Tulsa, Oklahoma), Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota) & Darwin Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Avram writes: CONCLUSION Scripture reveals that there is God the Father and God the Son. This speaks of a family relationship. Since Man was made in the Image of God, male and female, God the Holy Spirit must be the feminine counterpart to Eve, the second Person of the God Family. Scripture reveals that similar to how Eve came forth from Adam, so too the Holy Spirit came forth from the Father, and is a Person in Her own right, just as Eve was distinct from Adam, yet literally came from him and was one with him, so too the Holy Spirit with God the Father (the Son coming forth from their union; Gen. 1:2-3).   The Holy Spirit being a female is also seen from the grammar of the Hebrew Old and New Testaments as well as the Greek New Testament. The Spirit being female or feminine is further affirmed by the ancient (and modern) Eastern Orthodox Church, which teaches that the Spirit is the life bearer and nurturer of the believer (nourishing and molding, as a mother does her children), the believer being made into the Image of Messiah Yeshua so that there will be a heavenly marriage between the BrideGroom and the Bride).   The femininity of the Spirit is also seen in Proverbs, where the Holy Spirit, personified as Wisdom (which is also feminine in Hebrew), is spoken of as having existed from before the Creation, which declares Her deity and Her truly being the Wisdom of God the Father.   Paganism also confirms the truth that the Holy Spirit is a Woman, with paganism’s father god, mother goddess and son/savior god. Satan, the author of paganism, counterfeited the Three Persons in the true God Family of Israel for his perverse pagan trinity. Therefore, paganism too affirms both the deity, personhood, and the femininity of the true Holy Spirit.   Finally, water baptism is the ceremonial and spiritual fulfillment of being Born Again (circumcised in heart; a new creation in Messiah) having come forth from the Waters of the Father and the fluttering Wind of the Holy Spirit, as Yeshua did on Day One: begotten; not created.   Having said all that, the Holy Spirit is not a Woman anymore than God the Father is a Man. They are both spirit. Yet, because Scripture uses relational terms for the Two divine Beings, (Father and Son, ‘He’ and ‘His’ for both of Them; both masculine terms) and also, American Christians have no problem with calling the Holy Spirit a ‘He,’ ‘Him’ or a ‘Gentleman,’ it’s Scripture and more than right to refer to the Holy Spirit as a ‘She’ or ‘Her’ and also, a Woman. The Holy Spirit embodies the feminine or biblically woman attributes of the God Family, just as the Father and the Son embody the masculine attributes.   Because of the relationship Scripture brings out in the Father begetting His Son, the Holy Spirit is both Wife to the Father and Mother to the Son, in the same conceptual way that Eve was both wife to Adam and mother to her children whom Adam and she begot. Again, these are human terms for the Holy Spirit, but as far as language is used to describe reality, this is biblical. The terms Wife and Mother spin off of the scriptural terms for the Father and His Son. The Three are truly one God Family made up of Three divine Persons and as such, the Holy Spirit has the place of the Woman. This is why Scripture reveals that Man was made in the Image and Likeness of God; so we could understand the God Family. *33*   P.S. In Laura’s rebuttal to my post/teaching about the Holy Spirit being a Person in the God Family, Laura says: “The reason scripture says that Christ was begotten is because he was begotten through Mary His human mother. Since Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit your doctrine proposes that Christ’s birth was an abomination, because it is an abomination for two women to lie together and it would be totally impossible for two women to have a baby together. So therefore, the Holy Spirit if it were a woman as you propose here, could not have impregnated Mary.”   Laura’s understanding of the Incarnation is false for two reasons:   One, because she sees Mary as giving her humanity to Jesus, but if that were the case, Jesus would have had Mary’s sinful humanity and would have been a sinner because Mary was a fallen, sinful creature (unless one is a Catholic and believes the gross heresy that Mary was without sin: “immaculate”).   Jesus did not take His humanity from Mary. Jesus was created a human being, like Adam before the Fall, the first of many after Him (cf .1st Cor. 15:20, 23). Jesus, like Adam, could have sinned, and we would all have been doomed to Hell. If Jesus “being God the Son,” as well as the Second and Last Adam (1st Cor. 15:45, 47), could not have sinned, Satan’s Temptations (see Mt. 4:1f.) would have been meaningless, but as Hebrews states, Jesus was made just like us so he could both taste Death and suffer (Heb. 2:9-11, 14, 17-18). One cannot be made like a human being and be impervious to temptation, for then one isn’t really a human being, and Jesus was a real human being who totally relied on both His Father and Mother within Him, as well as being God the Son, as even the demons testified to (cf. Mk. 1:24, Lk. 4:34).   Mary was “just” an incubator for the Seed of the God-Man that was planted/made in her womb.   And two, “begotten” for Jesus never refers to Jesus being begotten in Mary’s womb, but to Jesus being God the Son from eternity past, as John continually brings out, without ever mentioning Jesus’ human conception or birth in relation to being begotten. For example, John 1:1…   “In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)   And John 1:14: “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of Grace and Truth.” (John 1:14)   “Begotten of the Father” obviously doesn’t refer to Mary begetting Jesus.   Neither Mary nor Joseph begot Jesus. “Begotten” always refers to Jesus’ deity on Day One of Creation, not His humanity. This might be new for you, but pray about it and let the Holy Spirit, your Mother, confirm it for you with Scripture.   Laura writes: Avram, I am so disappointed in you. I have known you awhile and I know that we had a few differences, but this is way over the top. Why would you come into a group any group and start teaching pagan doctrines, because that is exactly what this is that you are sputtering about. Did you like the pagan doctrines better than the real doctrines of God the Father and of Christ which are found in scripture.   You keep saying my name over and over as if you truly expect me to believe this garbage of the pagans. Your trinity comes right from Gnosticism. So, between the pagan Eastern Orthodox Church and the Gnostic doctrine of the Trinity, I believe you are drowning in sin right up to the top of your head. Everyone who reads this should pray for Avram.   Because of the sin overfilling the world right now, I am sure you will get a following somewhere with that garbage you are teaching but I truly don’t believe you will get a foothold here in the Church of God. Your Gnosis (Knowledge) does not exceed the Knowledge, Truth and Wisdom that God’s elect get directly from Him through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who is not a person but is the very Power of God.   Darwin writes:  Final thoughts by Darwin Lee   Laura lee is editor of this newsletter and her “Iron Sharpening Iron’s” are always proofread by me-coeditor. Laura goes through extensive efforts in attempting to get to the heart of what doctrines others have whether they be Bible based or not. I have read all Avram’s philosophy and if there were no one to counter his hypothesis, then anyone taking in his teaching on this matter would well be taken in and accept it as “gospel”. I as well have carefully read Laura’s response to Avaram’s position of the Holy Spirit being a mother-person. I must concur with Laura, (not because she is my wife), but as always, I have understood that God the Father and Jesus are only two and therefore I cannot teach that the Holy Spirit as being a woman. God and Jesus both have male and female qualities in their nature and express that in humans by male and female entities, (persons). That sheer fact is evident by any observant person. We act and respond with our unique characteristics differently. Women are nurtures and men are more in general inclined to be short on being able to be gentle and lacking in ability to respond to the feelings of others as women having that quality. There is more on that subject of course. That is getting away from what is at the real heart of the matter here, that God being three persons in one, one being a “lady”.   Each person reading both sides of the equation will have to come to their own conclusions. I concur with Laura and Scripture.   Some others are:  Re 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.   Once again, we see here an analogy as New Jerusalem being a “bride-she”. Is New Jerusalem a person too? You decide.   Jesus is husband, ready to marry His bride. His bride is made up of men and women. I can see Jesus marrying a woman (His bride) but give me a break He would not marry a man, an “abomination”, if you will! The only conclusion one can come to that we are showing by analogy of human marriage to a spiritual marriage-relationship with Jesus our “Brother”, Opps, now we are marrying our brother, an incestuous relationship. Jesus is marrying His brothers and sisters. Give me a break, please!   Re 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.   If the Holy Spirit is a she dove, then Jesus is a he lamb, than what is the father, a he lion? After all, fathers roar like lions in their marriages, right men?   Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.   There can be no other explanation other than that the human relationship in marriage is an analogy in our spiritual relationship with God and Jesus.   God and Jesus both have masculine and feminine qualities in Their nature as to who and what They are, and God gave Adam and Eve separate more dominant characteristics to each of them. They were (are) to become one in character as we grow together, bringing them (us) in oneness as God and Jesus are in oneness of the same qualities in their characterBeing as one. God had a purpose in giving man and woman separate in thinking that we in our human form can learn what God is and become one with each other in nature taking on the same nature as God and Jesus. God and Jesus were always one. He gave them separate characteristics, instructing them to be one as They are one.   That is how we grow in love as God is love. We humans don’t have the love of God in us when we are born. We have a hard time at that even in our late adult lives without God’s Spirit in us. Question, why didn’t He make us like that from our beginning? Wouldn’t that have been the easy route to take? Everybody loves each other and we don’t know why. Like a bunch of zombies, we just do what God programmed in us for all eternity, robots, if you will, yellow pencils.   As anyone in a marriage relationship can attest to, when they first get married, they are far from being one at the start. Many never make it to that oneness as attested to by many marriages ending in divorce, which is anything but attaining oneness. How can two walk together if they cannot agree? I can tolerate someone I don’t agree with, but it’s hard to be in company with them for any extended period of time. Thus, as Jesus prayed to His father, “that they may be one as We are One”. Once born, literally and changed into spirit beings as God’s sons and daughters, we will have attained the oneness with each other and with our Father and our brother Jesus our Husband, the called and chosen, spirit born sons and daughters, being Jesus’s wife.   Jesus in the Old Testament was married to Israel (men and women). He divorced them because they were “naughty” if you get my drift! Here again, He is in an incestuous relationship, married to a bunch of men. How ridiculous!   Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:   Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.   Think analogy. Can’t be anything but.       So too, in Proverbs eight, seven and throughout Proverbs, wisdom is (she) and wisdom comes from God. Forget person, but if you must, go for it, stay with it, but leave me out and stop trying to badger me and others with your fake doctrine!     FOOTNOTES *33* This paper was finished on August 27, 2017 and last revised on Shabat, January 20, 2024.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Avram Yehoshua (Tulsa, Oklahoma)

I am unsubscribing from your cog Messenger and also, I cannot agree to having you publish any more of my articles because of your heretical view on the Godhead and your inability to reason over the Scriptures concerning this. I have given you ample biblical understanding of the Personhood and femininity of the Holy Spirit, but you have refused to believe it, instead, fortifying yourself with some nonsensical arguments or positions that I have addressed.   Finally, you have misrepresented my last words/thoughts to you concerning the Holy Spirit. It’s either intentional or unintentional, but either way it reveals your inability to honestly engage and debate this topic. I realize now that this is the position of your church/denomination, but they are wrong.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: I am unsubscribing from your cog Messenger and also, I cannot agree to having you publish any more of my articles because of your heretical view on the Godhead and your inability to reason over the Scriptures concerning this.   Laura writes: Avram unsubscribed from our newsletter mailing list on February 3, 2024. We will not re-print any more of his articles unless he sends them to us for print.   In the online dictionary, “heretical” seems to have two meanings: 1. believing in or practicing religious heresy. 2. holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.   I believe I have spent a great deal of my time trying to reason with you over scriptures and I would like to point out that you are the one that left the conversation (reasoning) before the conversation (reasoning) was even over. There is a major flaw in what you were trying to reason with me about. Your doctrine is not found in scripture, and I don’t care how many “he’s” you want to change into “she’s”. Whether you want to make the “Holy Spirit” into a “he” or a “she”, it is still not a person, and you gave no clear scriptures showing the “Holy Spirit” was a person. In fact, most of the scriptures you gave to prove your doctrine did not even say what you tried to tell us they said.   I and the rest of us who do not believe in a trinity doctrine, do not believe it because it is not in scripture and the only reason, we are being told we have a heretical view is because we do not agree with your view.   The point of an “Iron Sharpening Iron” is to present your case and let others decide whether they believe it or not. The point of the “Iron Sharpening Iron” is not to make the listener drop everything they believe and now believe everything the other person has now told us.   The belief system of people runs deep and even if they believe something which is not in scripture, they will try to fight you to the death to make you believe it. An example is one of my sisters, she was a Jehovah’s Witness (I say was because she died of cancer in 2014.). One day we were spending some time together and we went to eat in a restaurant. During the meal she told me that Christ was Michael the Arch Angel and that she could prove it from scripture. I said, show me, so she whipped out her bible. I read the verse she showed me, and I said, “That verse does not say that.” For the next several hours she tried her hardest to get me to believe that Christ was Michael the Arch Angel because she had proof from the Bible. She was angry at me because I would not believe what she told me and finally I had to tell her to please go home. Which she did, but before she left, she told me there was no hope for me and that when I died, I would never live again. In other words, she was so mad at me for not seeing scripture her way that she wanted me dead forever. You cannot make people believe what you want them to believe. That was never the point when Christ said to go and teach all people. Not all people even believed Christ and He is God.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: I have given you ample biblical understanding of the Personhood and femininity of the Holy Spirit, but you have refused to believe it, instead, fortifying yourself with some nonsensical arguments or positions that I have addressed.   Laura writes: Again, you can’t make people believe what you believe, and you certainly can’t give them your understanding and expect that they will just believe you without continuing to stay in the conversation and explain what you are talking about. I was not surprised that you unsubscribed. I have known you for awhile and I have noticed that if you don’t get your way or if someone disagrees with you, you quit. The difference between you and me is this: I understand that I cannot make people believe what I say so there is no reason to get angry at someone and throw them out of my presence. I understand that the only thing I can do is present my case from scripture and hope that people at least look at what I have presented to them if not now then perhaps sometime in the future.   You on the other hand want people to believe your every word and if they don’t you get angry and tell them their view is heretical even though the scriptures you present do not even come close to saying what you tell people they say. All scripture is truth, but you can’t change scripture to make it say what you want it to say in order to get people to believe you. Your doctrine is from Gnosticism/Paganism. It is not from scripture. Didn’t you ever notice how Satan seems to be fixated on women. After all his first victim was Eve so he probably thinks, all women are easily persuaded to his ways. Satan has many goddesses which are the head of men, and he even has the catholic church worshipping a stature he calls Mary. Satan isn’t counterfeiting the Godhead here. What Satan is doing with all these women goddesses is mocking God.   Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Finally, you have misrepresented my last words/thoughts to you concerning the Holy Spirit. It’s either intentional or unintentional, but either way it reveals your inability to honestly engage and debate this topic. I realize now that this is the position of your church/denomination, but they are wrong.   Laura writes: By the time this is printed, I will have let you say all of your words, just as you sent them to me. I don’t edit things in or out of the context of letters, articles, or iron sharpening irons unless it is personal information or in regard to an advertisement you have placed in an article. Advertisements within articles are sometimes in bad taste and should be moved to the ad section of our newsletter.   Since you were allowed to speak your words, I am not sure how I misrepresented them by what I said and just for the record, I cannot read your thoughts so it would be hard for me to misrepresent them. Due to the length of your “Iron Sharpening Iron” it appeared at times that even you were confused as to how your doctrine worked as you seemed to contradict yourself in some areas but I believe we were able to glean the major part of it from what you said, so stop me if I am wrong, but what I got from what you said is as follows:   The” Holy Spirit” is a person and is a woman. The Holy Spirit is the mother of Christ and the wife of God. She came forth from God and then with God they fluttered over the waters and begot Christ. She showed herself as a person in the form of a dove and she gives people pieces of herself so they can be like her. Do you even see how much power you have taken from God and given to a dove which is and always has been a bird and not a person.   The Trinity doctrine is not unique to, nor original with, Christianity. It has deep Pagan roots, dating back to at least two centuries BC, and has been prominent in many Eastern religions ever since.   The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church Councils (Western and Eastern churches) brought the Trinity doctrine into Christianity. This occurred before there was a final split between the two over authority. Even those who voted the idea into Roman Catholic dogma declared it was a mystery that had to be accepted by faith. The theologians that wrote the Catholic Encyclopedia admit that there is no Old Testament indication of a triune God, and very little in the New Testament that can be construed that way. They also admit that it was a product of tradition that evolved over four centuries. The RCC gives equal credence to tradition and scripture. In this case tradition is almost the whole criteria for this dogma, aside from a few scriptures that are wrenched out of context and misinterpreted, trying to give the idea legitimacy.   The evolution of this doctrine within Christianity began with The Apostle’s Creed, progressed to the Nicene Creed, and finally culminated in the Athanasian Creed. Click on the links below to read more about them.   Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine – BiblicalUnitarian.com   The United Church of God also has some pagan history in regard to the Trinity Doctrine which is pagan right to it’s core: How Ancient Trinitarian Gods Influenced Adoption of the Trinity | United Church of God (ucg.org)   Sophia (Koinē Greek: Σοφíα “Wisdom”, Coptic: ⲧⲥⲟⲫⲓⲁ “the Sophia”[1]) is a major theme, along with Knowledge (γνῶσις gnosis, Coptic: ⲧⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ tsōwn), among many of the early Christian knowledge theologies grouped by the heresiologist Irenaeus as gnostikoi (γνωστικοί), “knowing” or “men that claimed to have deeper wisdom”. Gnosticism is a 17th-century term expanding the definition of Irenaeus’ groups to include other syncretic faiths and the Greco-Roman mysteries.[2]   In Gnosticism, Sophia is a feminine figure, analogous to the human soul but also simultaneously one of the feminine aspects of God. Gnostics held that she was the syzygy, or female twin, of Jesus, i.e. the Bride of Christ, and the Holy Spirit of the Trinity. She is occasionally referred to by the term Achamōth (Ἀχαμώθ, Hebrew: חכמה chokhmah) and as Prunikos (Προύνικος). In the Nag Hammadi texts, Sophia is the lowest aeon or anthropic emanation of the godhead.   Nigh related to this is the notion widely diffused among Gnostic sects of the impure mētra (womb) whence the whole world is supposed to have issued. As according to the Italian Valentinians the Soter opens the mētra of the lower Sophia, (the Enthymēsis), and so occasions the formation of the universe (Iren. I. 3, 4) so on the other hand the mētra itself is personified. So Epiphanius reports the following cosmogony as that of a branch of the Nicolaitans:   In the beginning were Darkness, Chaos, and Water (skotos, kai bythos, kai hydōr), but the Spirit indwelling in the midst of them, divided them one from another. From the intermingling of Darkness with Spirit proceeds the mētra which again is kindled with fresh desire after the Spirit; she gives birth first to four, and then to other four aeons, and so produces a right and a left, light and darkness. Last of all comes forth an aischros aiōn, who has intercourse with the mētra, the offspring whereof are Gods, Angels, Daemons, and Spirits. — Epiphanius, Haer. 25, 5   Sophia (Gnosticism) – Wikipedia   Avram’s entire doctrine comes right from paganism and clearly from Gnostic/Nicolaitan beliefs. Notice how among other things Sophia is the Holy Spirt and toward the end she is the spirit over the waters of Genesis that divides night and day and from her everything comes forth or proceeds.   The one who has an inability to honestly engage and debate this topic is the one who brought it to us in the first place. You Avram presented your topic with the “high expectations” that everyone who heard you speak of this doctrine would just automatically believe you and when that did not happen you left the conversation. How this works is you get your say and then others get their say. Sometimes all agree and sometimes none or few agree but when you walk away then you are the one no longer conversing or debating your own topic. You have purposely closed your eyes and ears to hear anything that others would say to you but yet you want these same others to believe your every word.   The bottom line here is the Trinity Doctrine whether it is three men, or two men and a woman is a pagan doctrine which also has deep roots in Gnostic and Nicolaitan beliefs. In other words, it is a doctrine of Satan, and we are glad to have the heretical view of the bible and God on our side.   Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Denver Braughler (Muncie, Indiana)

My understanding is that the Holy Spirit is the power of the Most High.   If as Avram stated, the Holy Spirit is the mother, then how did she meld with Miriam (the human mother)?  I ask Avram how his hypothesis about the hypostasis explains this conception:   Luke 1:35 The messenger [angel] answered her, “Ruach HaKodesh [the Holy Spirit] will come upon you, the power of HaElyon [the Most High] will cover you. Therefore the kodesh [set-apart thing] begotten to you will be called the Son of Elohim [God].”

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Avram Yehoshua (Tulsa, Oklahoma) and by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Laura Lee writes: Even though by this point in time, Avram has unsubscribed from our mailing list because he was disappointed that I did not agree with his every word and felt I was misrepresenting what he said even though the words he spoke were his own, just as my words were my own. What he really wanted was for everyone, especially me, to believe what he told us which is not in scripture. When I did not agree with him, he got mad and left the conversation not wanting to hear any scriptural proof that was presented to him. In other words, only what he said was true and what I said was not true. I guess you will all need to decide for yourself.   In fairness to Denver, I sent his question to Avram for an answer and the following is the answer I received in its entirety:   Avram’s answer to Denver: Thank you for asking that question.     First, there is no “melding” of the Holy Spirit and Miryam in Scripture. It’s a popular view that Jesus’ humanity came from Miryam, but that’s an assumption that Scripture refutes.   Second, calling the Holy Spirit “the power” of God Most High does not negate the Spirit’s Personhood as the Second Person in the God Family, any more than calling Jesus “the Son of God” negates the Personhood of God the Father.   Third, nowhere in Scripture does it state that the humanity of Jesus came from Miryam. It’s Man trying to understand how Jesus got His human nature; how Jesus came to be a Man. Just as Jesus came forth from the union of the Father and the Mother (the Holy Spirit) in the Beginning (Gen. 1:2-3), so too Jesus became a fetus, a human being in the womb of Miryam, while retaining His deity. Jesus truly is the First of the New Creation; the First of many brethren, the God-Man:   “For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the Image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren.” (Romans 8:29)   “He is the Image of the invisible God, the Firstborn over all Creation.” (Colossians 1:15) The Firstborn over all the New Creation.   “And He is the Head of the Body, the church, who is the Beginning, the Firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.” (Colossians 1:18) Now Jesus is the glorified God-Man.   “But when He again brings the Firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”” (Hebrews 1:6)   The Father chose Miryam to carry Jesus to full term. Miryam was blessed above all other women in that, but she was still a sinful human being, despite what the Catholic Church teaches. In simple terms, Mary was the incubator-host-feeder of the Son in the womb, but Miryam’s human nature had nothing to do with the pristine and sinless God given human nature of Jesus.    IF Jesus had Miryam’s human nature, Jesus would have been a sinner, having a sinful human nature as Miryam’s father and mother had, back to Adam and Eve in their fallen human state. The human nature of Jesus was given to Him by His Father and His Mother; truly the creative miracle of the Incarnation; just as God gave Adam and Eve their pristine and sinless human nature. That’s how Jesus can be called the Second Adam and also the Last Adam. Jesus is the Fountainhead of the new humanity. Jesus was sinless, just like Adam and Eve when God created them:   “And so, it is written, “The First Man Adam became a living being.” The Last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.” (1st Corinthians 15:45)   “The First Man was of the Earth, made of dust. The Second Man is the Lord from Heaven.” (1st Corinthians 15:47)   The humanity of Jesus was not of this Earth, but of/from Heaven, that is to say, from God the Father and God the Mother to place Jesus, the God-Man with pristine human nature, in the womb of Miryam. Jesus is the First of many in the New Creation.   Fourth, there is no melding of Mary’s human nature with her Son, and so there is no “Woman” (the Holy Spirit) mating with another woman (Miryam). That is a crude and false understanding of what happened; no less heretical than the Muslim teaching that Jesus came into being by God (the Father) actually having physical sex with Miryam.    The miracle of the Incarnation is that God the Son became a sinless human being; the Second Adam; a Jewish human being, circumcised on the 8th day of His life, just as Isaac had been (cf. Gen. 21:4). Jesus is the Jewish King of Israel:   “you shall surely set a king over you whom Yahveh your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you. You may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother.” (Deuteronomy 17:15)   “saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”” (Matthew 2:2)   “Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?”  Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.”” (Matthew 27:11)   “When they had twisted a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand. And they bowed the knee before Him and mocked Him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”” (Matthew 27:29)   “And they put up over His head the accusation written against Him: “This is Jesus the King of the Jews.”” (Matthew 27:37)   I hope my words have opened up some avenues for further study.   Laura Lee writes: “The human nature of Jesus was given to Him by His Father and His Mother;” When Avram uses the word “Mother” here he is not talking about Mary. He is talking about the “Holy Spirit” whom he believes is a person, a woman and God’s wife as well as Christ’s mother.   “Mary was the incubator-host-feeder of the Son in the womb” When Avram makes this statement I feel he is being very disrespectful to Mary whom God specially chose to be the human mother during Christ’s time on earth as a man.   All humans are sinful creatures, but God works with us anyway, with the end in mind of us becoming perfect as God is perfect. All who make it through this process of perfection will someday be in the family of God. Avram’s deep meaning in saying Mary was an incubator is because he believes Christ acquired no traits at all from Mary due to her sinful nature. So, I asked Avram another question.   I asked him the following: “I have another question for you. If Jesus did not get His humanity from Mary, then how did He end up being Jewish and of the blood line of David who was yet another sinner?” The answer I received to this question is below in its entirety.   Avram’s answer to Me: Jesus was born of/through Mary. That seems to have made Him Jewish. Jesus Himself aligns Himself with the Jewish people. One such example is when speaking with the Samaritan woman:   “You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22)   As for how Jesus was from the lineage of King David, when Mary’s lineage isn’t known, only Joseph’s, it goes back to a husband being “one” with his wife:   “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24)   The answer is in my article: The Davidic Lineage of Messiah Yeshua   What did you think of my previous answer/s? Did it make sense that Jesus’ humanity could not have come from Mary?   Laura Lee writes: Just for the record, I did read Avram’s entire article “The Davidic Lineage of Messiah Yeshua” and essentially what he is trying to say is that there is no possible way the throne of David came through Mary. After reading the entire thing I was sick to my stomach in seeing a person teach such a long doctrine which is not found in scripture and disrespecting not just Mary but God and Christ as well. Christ was a human being who was nourished and loved by Mary his mother. Christ could have sinned, but He did not. Sin is a choice which each and every one of us make. Some do not give much thought to that choice, but it is still a choice. What Christ had to help him was a full measure of the Holy Spirit (Power, Essence) of God. We will not have that until the very end.   Christ was a human just as we are human: Luk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.    Mat 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.    Joh 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.    Mar 4:38 And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?    Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.   Avram believes that if Christ got His humanity from Mary that He would have sinned, but the entire point of God impregnating Mary through the Power of God (the Holy Spirit) was so Christ would be human and that He, Christ would suffer in all points just as men and women suffer.   Avram reluctantly says Christ’s Jewishness came through Mary though by how he states it and talks about it, I do not believe he believes Mary contributed anything to Christ and that she was as he claims just an incubator.   In his above-named booklet, he argues with himself that the throne of David as well as his lineage to the line of Judah had to come through Joseph, Mary’s husband somehow. He dismissed the key as being Joseph adopting Christ as his own because it isn’t in scripture. Then he comes up with an idea that because Joseph and Mary were married, they became as one and so therefore, what I understood it to say, was that Mary’s lineage is now one with Joseph. In other words, whatever nationality Mary may have been it is now the same as Joseph’s because they are married and are one.   The whole idea of that is ludicrous to say the least. So, after the thunder, hail and destructive winds of marriage, finally in the last several years Darwin and I become one in purpose and the storm clouds have left our dwelling place. Does this now change my lineage to his lineage now that we are one in purpose. Of course not. Darwin is still German, and I am still English, Dutch, Irish and German. Being one did not change our family roots.   As far as lineage goes, the lineage of the Jews goes primarily through the Mother and not the Father. So Avram is also wrong on that point.   In Judaism, matrilineality or matrilineal descent is the tracing of Jewish descent through the maternal lineage. According to traditional halakha, Jewish descent is matrilineal: the child of a Jewish mother is automatically Jewish, while the child of a non-Jewish mother is non-Jewish unless they have converted to Judaism.[1]   In contemporary Judaism, the Orthodox and Conservative movements observe matrilineal descent, while the Reform and Reconstructionist movements in the United States accept one as Jewish based on either a Jewish mother or father. Reform responsa additionally requires an exclusively Jewish upbringing. Karaite Jews generally practice patrilineal descent. Matrilineality in Judaism – Wikipedia    And then it says:   Orthodox Judaism[edit] Orthodox Judaism practices matrilineal descent.[15][16] Orthodox Judaism holds that anyone with a Jewish mother also has irrevocable Jewish status; that even were such a Jew to convert to another religion, that person would still be considered Jewish by Jewish Law. Matrilineality in Judaism – Wikipedia   So, the point is that Christ is Jewish because His mother Mary was Jewish. That is one thing cleared up and now the other, how did Christ have the right to sit on the throne of David. The two lineages in scripture are different. So even though they both seem at first look to be Joseph’s lineage, they are not. One is Mary’s and one is Joseph’s, and they are yes about the bloodline, but they are also about the inheritance of the throne of David. Both lineages are found starting in Matthew 1:1 and Luke 3:18 and both lineages are different. The one in Matthew comes through David’s son Solomon and the one in Luke comes through David’s son Nathan. So, what is the point?   I don’t know who wrote this, but it comes from the website of the Church of the Great God,  Why Does Jesus Have Two Different Genealogies (Matthew 1:1-16; Luke 3:23-38)? (cgg.org)   Why Does Jesus Have Two Different Genealogies (Matthew 1:1-16; Luke 3:23-38)?   These two chapters, both giving genealogies of Jesus, at first appear to be contradictory. Actually, however, they complement each other.   The genealogy in Matthew 1 is clearly that of Joseph, Mary’s husband. Matthew records it for legal purposes. He is writing to prove to the Jews that Jesus is the Messiah, and the Jews’ custom in keeping records is to trace descent through the father. Legally, the Jews of Jesus’ day looked on Jesus as a son of Joseph (John 6:42).   Also, Joseph’s lineage is given to emphasize the fact that Jesus had been born of a virgin. Because of a curse that God placed on one of Joseph’s ancestors, Jesus could never sit upon the throne of David if Joseph had been His natural father.   Jechonias (Matthew 1:11-12), called Coniah in Jeremiah 22:24-30, was so evil God cursed him and his descendants, saying, “Write this man down as childless, . . . for none of his descendants shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling anymore in Judah” (verse 30). Jeconiah, as his name is spelled in the Old Testament, had children (I Chronicles 3:17), but he was childless insofar as none of his descendants ruled as king over Judah.   How, then, could Jesus be a descendant of David and qualify to sit on the throne? Enter the genealogy in Luke 3, which is Mary’s. According to Jewish usage, Mary’s ancestry is given in her husband’s name. The original Greek merely says Joseph was “of Heli” or Eli (verse 23). In fact, since Joseph’s father is said to be Jacob in Matthew 1:16, Heli is most probably Mary’s father. Joseph, then, is his son-in-law.   Unlike Joseph’s lineage, there was no block in Mary’s genealogy to Jesus sitting on the throne of David. Mary’s descent from David comes through his son Nathan, not Solomon or one of David’s other children (Luke 3:31). To fulfill His promise to establish David’s throne forever, God honored Nathan by making him the ancestor of the promised King who would sit on David’s throne throughout eternity (Luke 1:31-33).   But how could Mary transmit David’s royal inheritance—the right to the throne—to her Son, since all inheritances had to pass through the male line? According to Israel’s law, when a daughter is the only heir, she can inherit her father’s possessions and rights if she marries within her own tribe (Numbers 27:1-8; 36:6-8). There is no record that Mary had any brothers to inherit her father’s possessions and rights. Thus, Joseph became Heli’s heir by marriage to Mary, inheriting the right to rule on David’s throne, even over Judah. This right then passed on to Jesus.   Both genealogies had to be recorded to establish Christ’s right to rule on David’s throne. Joseph’s genealogy shows that Christ was a legal descendant of Jeconiah and thus legally could not sit on the throne of David in the nation Judah by inheriting the right solely through Joseph.   Further, the genealogies prove the virgin birth: The curse on Jeconiah’s line would have passed on to Christ if He were Joseph’s natural son, but He was not—He was the Son of God the Father, begotten by the Holy Spirit.   Jesus was Mary’s son descended from Nathan. Jesus can inherit rule over Judah because of Mary’s marriage to Joseph, whose genealogy shows he was Heli’s son-in-law.   So thus, you have it from multiple directions Avram is teaching a false, pagan doctrine which is not in scripture.   So, then Avram asked me the following question: “What did you think of my previous answer/s? Did it make sense that Jesus’ humanity could not have come from Mary?”   “What did I think of his previous answer/s?” My answer is this, I believe Avram has a problem and I believe he is delusional (not of a sound mind at this point in time). You should not be teaching any of this because it is a false pagan doctrine that comes directly from Satan. It is a part of Gnosticism which comes from a branch of the Nicolaitans whom God hates. There is no way to say this to any person nicely.   “Did it make sense that Jesus’ humanity could not have come from Mary?” My answer to this is that none of your doctrine makes any sense and none of it is in scripture. Mary deserves far more respect than you gave her in your doctrine. Do you have something against Mary or just women in general, because men are just as sinful as women.   The one thing I want to thank you for is that out of the clear blue sky you dropped this false doctrine on us all that we could understand how easy it could be to fall for this if we did not know ahead of time what our bibles said because your doctrine is not only false, but it is slimy like the serpent of old. You threaded enough truth throughout that if the only thing one looked at was what you said they might have fallen for it. I will admit at first I had no idea what you were talking about or where you were going with what you said but now I do and you have fooled no one with this garbage and that is exactly what your doctrine is, garbage.   Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by James Steinle (Swanville, Minnesota)

Avram Yehoshua wrote a fairly long rebuttal to my article on “Is Yayshua God?”.  Laura then wrote a rebuttal to Avram’s belief of the Holy Spirit being a third person or Being in the Heavenly family (Trinity).  I would just like to refer Avram to another article I wrote titled “The Holy Ghost”.  In it I show there were a number of perfect opportunities for the apostles when writing their letters, to show in their greetings how many Beings there were.  They only show greetings from the Father and the Son.  Since they did not include the Holy or set-apart Spirit I believe I am justified in saying there is no third being, but that it is the power of the Father; similar to electricity.  If Avram would like more info, I have an over 10 printed page analysis of a book “The Forgotten Trinity” by James White I could send.   I also relate that Matthew 28:19 has most likely been messed with as there is no example of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit names or titles being used in any of 5-6 times a baptism is recorded by the apostles; only Yayshua’s name.   I did come across another couple of places that relate to the Son and help explain his role, that being Micah 5:1-2, “Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. 2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting (the days of eternity).” (See Revelation 3:14 next paragraph down) (KJV) This prophecy of the Savior in Micah is also found explained in Matthew 2:1-6.   Revelation 3:14 “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, [see also Rev.1:5 and 22:20] the beginning [S746 ar-khay’ or arche – the One who began] of the creation of God;”   Also in Philippians 2:6 “[Christ Jesus] Who, being in the form [S3444 shape, outward appearance] of God [Elohim or Mighty One], thought it not robbery to be equal [S2470 similar, appearance] with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore [the] God [Yehovah] also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus [Yayshua – “He is Salvation”] every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, [S2962 Lord, Master, Owner] to the glory of God [Elohim] the Father.”   Laura and Darwin, thank you for making a place like this available so difficult subjects can be discussed!

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

The “Iron Sharpening Irons” are not meant for one person to write one and then everyone is supposed to just believe what is being said is true. In other words, if you write up an “Irom Sharpening Iron” you should not do it with the expectation that everyone will automatically agree with you on every point. Christ does not force anyone to follow Him. You do it because you want to.   The “Iron Sharpening Irons” are meant to be a two way conversation where you can express yourself and then if someone either agrees with you or does not agree with you they can also state what they want to state in regard to the subject. The “Iron Sharpening Irons” are also not meant for only one person to listen to what is being said. All people in the conversation should be listening to each other.   I believe you left the conversation too soon. The conversation is still going so if you want to join the conversation again you know where to sign up. Remember that I have printed some of your stuff and did not write up any “Iron Sharpening Irons” on it because I found it to be scriptural, so I do agree with you sometimes, just not all the time and you should not expect people to agree with you all the time because if you do then you should step down from trying to teach people. As a teacher all you can do is present your case and let those who heard it decide for themselves whether they will believe it or not.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Avram Yehoshua (Tulsa, Oklahoma) and Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Phew…you wrote a lot but said nothing, except to rebuke me for some alleged sense you have that everyone must agree with me. I never said that. I left the forum because of you. You are the “leader,” and I never realized that you teach only two Persons in the Godhead. That is far outside mainline Christianity. Yes, my idea that the Holy Spirit is also the Mother in the God Family is outside mainline Christianity, but I have seen from the Scriptures that this is what the Holy Spirit is. Your boiling down my position to what Prov. 8 says is dishonest.   Laura writes: Read what you wrote above, you left the forum because of me, because I do not believe in a trinity doctrine like you do? Isn’t that the same thing as saying I have to believe like you in order for you to be on our mailing list? And you dropped several other clues to me throughout your emails that you felt just that way. So I believe that my feeling in regard to that was legitimate and you just confirmed it.   “That is far outside mainline Christianity.” We are not part of mainline Christianity, we are the “Church of God” part of the remnant church spoken of throughout the Bible from one cover to the next. It says “Church of God” on our website and on our emails. The “Church of God” in the bible is not part of mainline Christianity and never was.   There is so much more to your trinity doctrine than Proverbs 8 so don’t think for one second that I boiled your doctrine down to Proverbs 8. That is what happens when you only hear a part of what is said. But for the record up to the point of this writing to my knowledge the only thing I said about Proverbs 8 is what was said in Issue #155 and that was only after you brought it up.   ******************************************************************************************** From Issue #155 Avram’s Iron Sharpening Iron: The Holy Spirit being the Mother in the Family of God (what family does not have a mother?), is also taught in the ancient Syrian or Eastern Orthodox Church which, from the time of the Apostles, has seen that the Holy Spirit is the Mother in the God Family. Also, Proverbs 8 is not speaking about wisdom as an abstract entity, nor is it speaking about Jesus. It presents the Holy Spirit, the God Mother, as divine Wisdom. It’s universally recognized that “wisdom” in Prov. 8 is a personification of a Person. That’s why most in the West see it as Jesus, but the word wisdom in Hebrew is a feminine noun, and as such, it speaks of the Holy Spirit or the Mother in this God Family. If you read Prov. 8 this way it’ll make a lot of sense. The Holy Spirit was with the Father “in the Beginning,” before time, before Creation.   Laura writes: In Proverbs 8, wisdom is presented as a woman but is not a person. When we read the entire chapter in context it is telling us that wisdom existed from the beginning. Why would that be? Look around you and take note of how much wisdom it takes to create all that Christ created. The chapter is also encouraging all people to get wisdom. Why would that be? Solomon had wisdom and as long as he used it he was with God, but when he went after all those strange women his wisdom was failing and he was unwisely going after other gods. You cannot get anything more from this chapter except it is talking about wisdom, just like the love chapter is talking about love. If people would stop putting their own words and ideas into what scripture really says we would not have all these false doctrines. (End Quote) **********************************************************************************************   Avram writes: What you wrote in defense of your position against mine, was nothing but your opinion. It had no connection to Scripture, even though you used Scripture. For instance, you spoke of how the English translations of the New Testament speak of the Holy Spirit as a “he,” but I revealed in my paper that the Greek word can be translated as either “he, she, or it.” How is it that you failed to respond to that, and also, that any Hebrew translation of the New Testament always has “She” for the Holy Spirit when She is the subject of the phrase. Always.   Laura writes: I answered this, you just don’t listen. It does not matter if you want to call the Holy Spirit a he, a she or an it. The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the POWER OF GOD.   Avram writes: Truly, you are out “in left field,” when you speak against the Personhood and the femininity of the Holy Spirit, and you don’t realize it.    Laura writes: There is no scripture in the bible that ever calls the Holy Spirit a person and if there was a scripture in the bible that says the Holy Spirit is a person you never brought it to my attention, so what kind of a teacher are you?   Avram writes: I didn’t immediately leave, but I responded to your thoughts to my replies. When I saw though, that you “dug in your heels” and truly didn’t respond in a meaningful way to the second time I responded to you, I saw that there wasn’t any more room for “iron sharpening iron.” You weren’t debating me; you were doing what you accuse me of: having to believe what you wrote.   Laura writes: So, you wanted me to believe your doctrine was true and if I didn’t it was called “digging my heels in” and therefore you didn’t have to listen anymore. Do you even begin to see how you are?   Avram writes: Also, in my last email I asked you what you thought about what I had written before, but I didn’t get back anything from you about that in this email, except to say that I shouldn’t expect everyone to instantly believe everything I say, and that I should “step down” from teaching because of that.   Laura writes: I didn’t answer your question because I had emailed first to find out if you would come back to the conversation but then I got this scathing letter from you accusing me of all sorts of things. The answer to your question is in my printed answer to you found in the March 2, 2024, issue of this newsletter.   And what I actually said was this: “…  and you should not expect people to agree with you all the time because if you do then you should step down from trying to teach people. As a teacher all you can do is present your case and let those who heard it decide for themselves whether they will believe it or not.”   I used the word “if” because you would use the word “if” not because you are accusing anyone of anything but if that is why you are teaching then you should step down. My statement used the word “if” purposely because only you can know why you are teaching anyone anything and if that purpose is that you expect those listening to you to agree with you then you should step down. It was not an accusation it was a statement.    Avram writes: Really, Laura? Wow…your understanding of why I broke away is very foolish and thoughtless. It has nothing to do with reality.   Your words only reveal how far away you are from accurately understanding my position and being able to respond to it. For instance, you disregard, with a cavalier and proud attitude, my concept that the Holy Spirit must be the Mother in the God Family, when I ask, If there’s a Father and a Son, what is missing from this God Family? Scripture establishes that there is a Father and a Son, but you cast aside that reality and the question by giving your opinion that God is God and we’re just humans, and so yes, we have a father, mother, child, but God could never have this, especially your God, Laura, with only a Father and a Son. Yet, Scripture says of Adam and Eve that they were created in the Image of God:   “Then God said, “Let Us make Man in Our Image, according to Our Likeness…”” (Genesis 1:26)   Have you ever thought about what the Image is? Why was Eve created? If God is only Father and Son, how can Man be father, mother, and son?    Many say the Image is human intelligence or the ability to worship God, which animals don’t have. Others say we have a spirit and animals just have souls. There are other things that people toss out, hoping to make sense of what that verse means, but I’ve come to see, from Genesis 1:1-3, that first there was the Father, and then the Mother, eternally within the Father, like Eve was within Adam (wow, what a picture, Laura), came forth from the Father (as Jesus states in John), and then the Son came forth from their union (Gen. 1:2-3), just as Cain came forth from the union of Adam and Eve. That is how Man has been made in the Image and Likeness of God (Elohim, literally Gods). See! I’ve explained it to you in simple terms, but can you see that? Of course not because your God consists of only two male figures. There is no room for a third person, especially a female but you saying that it’s not so, and the preposterous unscriptural reasons you give, do not negate it, Laura. You cannot negate what I’ve said with Scripture, common sense, or logic because it’s the Truth. Please don’t try and tell me where I am wrong, Laura, because you are not up to the task. Personally, you don’t have it in you to debate at this level, as you’ve already revealed, which is no slur against you: most don’t know how.   I pray that the Lord Yeshua opens your eyes to His Truth, especially in this area of divine Personhood for the Holy Spirit–the Mother of Jesus, God the Son.   Laura writes: I do understand your position, your entire doctrine is based on a doctrine of Satan and has nothing to do with what scripture actually says. There is no reality in your doctrine it is a fable of Satan and you fell for it. There never was a debate here, only a conversation, a dialogue about a doctrine you presented to us, a doctrine we researched and found to be false. Our job is to let you know that you are promoting a false doctrine, but you never listened long enough to hear our research in regard to your doctrine. Trust me, we understand your doctrine and I sincerely hope that you understand it yourself before it is too late.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by James Steinle (Swanville, Minnesota)

I just wanted to mention I seem to have created a firestorm with my article “Is Yayshua God?”  The biggest point for me regarding some people’s belief in a female/mother trinity, is that in the greetings from the apostles in their epistles to the brethren, not a one of the apostles mentioned any member of our Heavenly Family giving a greeting to us except from the Father and His Son.   We are cautioned to not fight over words. (2 Tim. 2:14) The big point and command from our Savior to us is this, “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.” (ESV) (John 15:12) Of course Yayshua had to correct his disciples once in a while also.  We all need to be willing to stand corrected if proven by Scripture.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Is Yayshua God? Article by James & Patt Steinle Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Don’t worry about it, all discussions are good if someone learns from it.   Very good statement at the end of your “Iron Sharpening Iron” where you said, “We all need to be willing to stand corrected if proven by Scripture.”   Now I am going to make a few comments in regard to “love”. Remember we are to show love to God by keeping His commandments (Law). So, love is something you do and not just say the words. If one of the brethren were driving toward a cliff and you could warn him/her before they actually went over the cliff, would you warn them or would you just stand there and watch? Hopefully you would do everything in your power to warn them that they were about to go over a cliff. That is the way it is with scripture.   Avram was going over the spiritual cliff. The trinity doctrine is not in scripture as you know. Granted Avram quit and left the discussion because he apparently had his mind made up and he did not even want to hear what anyone had to say to him. We tried to prevent Avram from going over the spiritual cliff, but we were unable to do that because you have to be willing to listen to all sides of any given problem and study it. Even though Avram left the discussion we continued to print what transpired so that others may learn from it, if not right now, perhaps at a future time.   Having discussions about things that people do not understand is not striving over words or fighting as you seem to believe here. There was no fight over words. I did define a few words so everyone would know what was being talked about, but I don’t think anyone was fighting over words or even a doctrine.   As God’s elect, part of our job now is to teach people the right thing if we know it. Or in other words we always need to have an answer. It doesn’t mean everyone is going to like the answer. Some people will get mad and leave the discussion. Not everyone always agreed with Christ either and He is God.