| Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Who Are the Nephilim Article by David Sielaff Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota) |
|---|
| Laura writes: First of all, I want to say this is an excellent article and the detail the author put into it is great. I do, however, have a few comments and disagreements with a few things which were in the article. From David’s Article: Everyone will be saved. Everyone in this room will be saved, and you will be happy for it. But that is not why I am here today. Laura writes: Personally, I hope that David’s above statement is true, however we all have to understand that people just like angels have free will. Because of free will, some people may never want to repent, which is a requirement in order to be saved. Remember, Satan took a third of the angels with him when he rebelled and they all will in the end be destroyed. God will make sure that everyone is given an equal chance, but some may refuse to live God’s way and will have to be destroyed. From David’s Article: ONLYYHWH and Christ are immortal. Christ has been immortal only since His resurrection. If there are exceptions, they are unclear in Scripture. Angels are elohim. According to the Bible they shall die if they sin. Laura writes: Psa 8:5 in the King James Bible, the word “angels” is Strongs #H430 which is ‘ĕlôhı̂ym. This apparently is the only instance where angels are called Elohim. Angels are created beings and are not Gods. Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. (KJV) A better translation of this verse would be: For thou hast made him a little lower then God and crowned him with glory and worship. (Geneva Bible 1560/1599) Psa 8:5 You make him a little lower than the gods, || And surround him with glory and majesty. (Literal Standard Bible) Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him but little lower than God, and crownest him with glory and honour. (Revised Version) Psa 8:5 For You have made him a little lower than God and have crowned him with glory and honor. (Faithful Version-Fred Coulter) Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him but little lower than God, And crownest him with glory and honor. The King James Bible in this case is a poor translation. Other wise I don’t know of any place in the bible where angels are Elohim. If angels were Elohim we would be able to worship them and the bible clearly says not to. Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (KJV) From David’s Article: My understanding of the biblical worldview is this: There was YHWH. He created Christ. The two collaborated and through Christ were created spirit beings. The Sons of God are spirit beings, but they are a different class of beings from angels who were created later. Then human beings were created. That is my take on it. YHWH is the only true creator and everyone and everything else is a creation of His. There is only one God (1 Corinthians 8:6). Right now, just YHWH and Christ (by virtue of His spiritual resurrection) have immortality. The rest are mortal. Laura writes: I do agree with the part where the Sons of God are another group of spirit beings. After all there are also elders in heaven besides angels. We clearly do not know how many different types of spirit beings there are all together. Where I and David part ways is that Christ is not a created being. We went over this subject at length in two articles, “Why Humans” by B. L. Cocherell, Issue #80 and “Was Our Savior Created?” by James Steinle in Issue #82. Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: John 1:1-3 Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (KJV) Here’s the biggest problem. Christ created all things; the bible says so. Christ cannot create himself. And yes the Father is over Christ. Christ himself said so. 1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. From David’s Article: The purpose of man’s religion is to contact God on man’s terms. Do you really think the pagan religions performed their rituals and sacrifices without getting a response from the gods? If “yes” is your answer, then you think ancient people were stupid or deluded. They were neither. Laura writes: I agree with this, as it is obvious that most people today do not want to use the bible as their instruction book, they would rather ignore what it says and do their own thing, most believing they are worshipping the true God when they are not. As far as the pagan gods go David is right here. People who worship pagan gods do get responses. When I was a kid, I got a Ouija board for Christmas one year. They do move by themselves and answer the questions you ask. I don’t know who threw that thing in the garbage, but it was a gift I didn’t have for very long. These pagan gods do answer. Why do you believe your government officials meet at the Bohemian Grove and worship Satan? Ancient people were not stupid. From David’s Article: First, the Sons of God are NOT angels: “For unto which of the angels said he at any time, ‘You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?’” Hebrews 1:5 Laura writes: I agree with David on this one. The Sons of God are not angels and I believe that his article is right on here. These are probably some class of spirit beings who did mate with humans and thus created a cross between spirit and human. We do know from scripture that angels can manifest themselves as humans. I myself even had an angel help me. I saw the angel and I knew at the time that it was an angel. Not the first second, but a few minutes later when he was gone. So let me speculate for a minute here. We know that the angels are spirit beings and scripture tells us they can’t mate with human kind, because they don’t mate and procreate in that manner. We also know that one third of the angels followed lucifer in rebellian to God. We also know that Satan and his minions will be destroyed at the end. Now lets speculate some more. It appears there could be other gods. Suppose that a third of these gods also rebelled. Just as Christ came to earth as a human, then these other gods could also do the same thing. They could even die and resurect each other however many times they wanted to. Or maybe once they chose to be human they couldn’t change back to spirit. So when they were human they mated with human women. The children were human but different. Here is the crux of the matter, “Sin”. When man sinned he died. When angels rebelled (sinned) they also received the death penalty. When these Gods sinned by mateing with human women they also received the death penalty. Christ only came to earth to die for humans, not for angels and not for other Gods. The only ones who had the death penalty taken away were humans, people. So in the end these other Gods who sinned can now be destroyed. Sin is why people or spirits die. So why didn’t Christ die for spirits or other Gods, again speculation. When someone spirit or human has tasted the righteousness of God and rejected it there is no more chance left for them. Spirit beings tasted the righteousness of God and rejected it. So they have to be destroyed. 2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. By the way, speculation is something that sits there until more evidence is received. |
| Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Who Are the Nephilim Article by David Sielaff Comments by Ray Daly (Lincoln, North Dakota) |
|---|
| Regarding David Sielaff’s article in the Apr. 29 issue. “Who Are the Nephilim”. A bit lengthy, but interesting. For, he gives the answer to whom are the Nephilim’s by the use of the “Elohim’s”. Which is under “God #430. He rightfully shows said word to be “PLURAL”. And, if this is so, then would it not have to mean that the “elohim” refers to ALL ANGEL’S created by God Almighty. Billions upon billions. And it should be noted that God Almighty himself is a part of said Elohim. Note in Strong’s Concordance that #430 has a second meaning. “The SUPREME GOD”. And note that all of these Spirit beings have physical, “flesh, bone and spirit” bodies. But NO blood. Let’s now look at Gen. 1:1, where it says. “In the beginning God [plural Elohim] created the heaven and the earth.” Or it was the plural ANGELS that created the earth that had already been in existence for hundreds of thousands, or even a million years. But note also what it says in V.3. “God said…” Here it has to be speaking of he whom is called “The Supreme God” in #430. Or he whom we know of as the “VOICE” in OT examples. Thus, when The Almighty/Supreme Voice said, then the Angel Elohim’s went about doing/creating what it is that he spoke to them of creating. Let’s now look at two other usages of God. #430. “‘A'” deity, and “‘The'” Diety”. Referring to a higher level of Elohims, such as those spoken of as being the God’s of the nations, and The Supreme Elohim, “the” Deity. #410. “Mighty” referring to the higher level of Angels in the ruler ship chain, such as Michael and Gabriel. Or those “four Angels” spoken of in Eze. 1, 10. And #410 also means the “Almighty”. Or, again, the Supreme God, and “THE Deity”. What does the above have to do with “Nephilim”. Well simply put, some of the Elohim Angels were given the duty to create human beings “in their images”. Thus, basically, they were those that created the ” darker skin, hair and eyes black and yellow races, some of whom were giants and pygmies”. The Supreme God Almighty only created Adam in his image. Or, white, with lighter skin, hair, and eyes Now, when it says that the Nephilim, when it says “when the sons of God [the Angels creation] saw the daughters of man [Adam and Eve], they took of whomever they would”, just what is it saying? Well, simply put, the human beings created by the angels lacked something that Adam and Eve had within them. That being, the “spirit in man”. And, when the Angels humans had intercourse with Mary’s daughterly line, said spirit in man was passed on to the Angel’s human’s. This is shown in the following Scripture from The Amplified Bible. Ecc. 11:5. “As you know not what is the way of the wind, or how the spirit [in man] comes to the bones in the womb of a pregnant woman…!” This coming of the spirit in man into the bones of a baby, is basically the same meaning of why a rib (within which was blood and spirit of man) was put into Eve. BTW. When it says in Gen. 1:26, “Let US create man in OUR image”, it is referring to the human beings that some of the lead angels created in their image. |
| Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Who Are the Nephilim Article by David Sielaff Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota) |
|---|
| Ray Daly’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Regarding David Sielaff’s article in the Apr. 29 issue. “Who Are the Nephilim”. A bit lengthy, but interesting. For, he gives the answer to whom are the Nephilim’s by the use of the “Elohim’s”. Which is under “God #430. He rightfully shows said word to be “PLURAL”. And, if this is so, then would it not have to mean that the “elohim” refers to ALL ANGEL’S created by God Almighty. Billions upon billions. And it should be noted that God Almighty himself is a part of said Elohim. Note in Strong’s Concordance that #430 has a second meaning. “The SUPREME GOD”. And note that all of these Spirit beings have physical, “flesh, bone and spirit” bodies. But NO blood. Laura Lee writes: The article was not saying that angels are gods. Also when Christ walked the earth he had blood. Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (KJV) Ray Daly’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Let’s now look at Gen. 1:1, where it says. “In the beginning God [plural Elohim] created the heaven and the earth.” Or it was the plural ANGELS that created the earth that had already been in existence for hundreds of thousands, or even a million years. But note also what it says in V.3. “God said…” Laura Lee writes: The angels did not create the earth or anything in it or on it. Jesus created everything: Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (KJV) Angels did not exist for hundreds of thousands or even a million years. They were created on day 4 of creation week. Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. (KJV) Angels were created to minister and help humankind: Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? (KJV) In the Apocrypha book of Esdras it says the following: 2Es 6:45 Upon the fourth day you commanded that the sun should shine, and the moon give her light, and the stars should be in their order: 2Es 6:46 and gave them a charge to do service to man, that was to be made. (WEBA) Ray Daly’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Here it has to be speaking of he whom is called “The Supreme God” in #430. Or he whom we know of as the “VOICE” in OT examples. Thus, when The Almighty/Supreme Voice said, then the Angel Elohim’s went about doing/creating what it is that he spoke to them of creating. Laura Lee writes: The angels did not create anything. Ray Daly’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Let’s now look at two other usages of God. #430. “‘A'” deity, and “‘The'” Diety”. Referring to a higher level of Elohims, such as those spoken of as being the God’s of the nations, and The Supreme Elohim, “the” Deity. #410. “Mighty” referring to the higher level of Angels in the ruler ship chain, such as Michael and Gabriel. Or those “four Angels” spoken of in Eze. 1, 10. And #410 also means the “Almighty”. Or, again, the Supreme God, and “THE Deity”. What does the above have to do with “Nephilim”. Well simply put, some of the Elohim Angels were given the duty to create human beings “in their images”. Thus, basically, they were those that created the ” darker skin, hair and eyes black and yellow races, some of whom were giants and pygmies”. The Supreme God Almighty only created Adam in his image. Or, white, with lighter skin, hair, and eyes Laura Lee writes: Ray, this is fake news. All of the traits of humankind were programed into their DNA. The angels did not create any human beings. Ray Daly’s Iron Sharpening Iron: Now, when it says that the Nephilim, when it says “when the sons of God [the Angels creation] saw the daughters of man [Adam and Eve], they took of whomever they would”, just what is it saying? Well, simply put, the human beings created by the angels lacked something that Adam and Eve had within them. That being, the “spirit in man”. And, when the Angels humans had intercourse with Mary’s daughterly line, said spirit in man was passed on to the Angel’s humans. This is shown in the following Scripture from The Amplified Bible. Ecc. 11:5. “As you know not what is the way of the wind, or how the spirit [in man] comes to the bones in the womb of a pregnant woman…!” This coming of the spirit in man into the bones of a baby, is basically the same meaning of why a rib (within which was blood and spirit of man) was put into Eve. Laura Lee writes: Fake news Ray. You have a great imagination and could probably be rich writing fiction books but what you are saying here is just not in scripture. Read your bible. Ray Daly’s Iron Sharpening Iron: BTW. When it says in Gen. 1:26, “Let US create man in OUR image”, it is referring to the human beings that some of the lead angels created in their image. Laura Lee writes: There are no humans created in the image of lead angels or any other angels. |
Views: 41
Sign up to Receive [The "New" Church of God Messenger] weekly newsletter: